In their mindset therefore saving them gas and bullets, eh? :neutral:
But seriously, that’s how war was fought in Europe since Early Modern times… which is why armies of either side were despised by the civil population back then (before the rise of Nationalism).
But did they expect their soldiers to steal warm winter coats from the civilians, too?? That’s just foolish.
They didn’t expect it (at least not so far as I know), rather the failure of the logistics system to keep up to the expected throughput was what denied the Wehrmacht it’s own winter clothing. And yes, there are plenty of documented examples of Russian civvies being thrown out in the snow by German soldiers stealing their winter clothes.
Absolutely right , even in the history films made for the Eastern Front it was mentioned . I think they didn’t expect their logistics to fail because simply everyone including Hitler expected quick stunning victory so no one prepared the logistics for a long war .
I say just take england then drive to moscow on pure adrenaline that would have won the war
“Just” take England? It would have taken an operation the size and capability of Overlord, launched in June 1940 against British forces shattered at Dunkirk for taking England to have a cat in hell’s chance of success.
As for Moscow, what would the Germans do when they got there? Napoleon took Moscow, the Russians promptly set fire to it and withdrew further. His retreat from Moscow was one of the greatest disasters in military history.
True the things are not simple as they might look , and even a dreamer like Hitler knew that .
Hitler lost WW-2 because he ate his food too fast and bit his fingernails at the dinner table. god!
Hi, there !! 
I believe that WW2 was lost from the very beginning anyway.
Dictators are regularly and arrogantly underestimating all their opponent’s
determination to fight.
The idea was that, once the battle on the continent was won the English
would have said “enough”, which didn’t happen.
The idea was that, after being severly beaten up during the opening weeks
of Barbarossa, the Russians would have surrendered, which didn’t happen.
Plus the foolish Italian ally, good enough to open a number of unnecessary
new fronts whom he was totally unable to keep without German aid (Greece,
NorthAfrica, Ethiopia).
I remember having read about Ciano (Mussolini’s son-in-law) telling Mussolini
these words, roughly: “Now that the U.S.A. are in the war, things will get
much harder.” to which Mussolini had replied something like: “It’s not going
to be something to bother greatly about, having another enemy!” At this
point Ciano grabbed the Rome telephone book, handed it to Mussolini, and
said: “This here is Rome’s telephone book. Have you ever had the chance
of seeing New York’s?”
(Ciano was trialed by the fascists for conspiracy and shot in January 1944)
Bye.
Bruno
I read somewhere in another thread that Hitler had offered Mussolini to support him in North Africa.
Mussolini declined, and his troops ended up getting decisively defeated in one battle after another. Grudgingly, Mussolini asked for Hitler’s help. The Afrikakorps was sent to help them and they started winning again.
Hi, there !!
Yeah, and what about the ill Greece-campaign, a new front launched without
any practical reason, propaganda-yelled as “a promenade to Athens”… instead
the Greek fought, and bravely, and maybe would have even thrown the Italians
back into the Adriatic sea if the Germans hadn’t decided to postpone Barbarossa
and walk across Yugoslavia to relieve the Italians out of their misery!
It is reported that during the very first days of the Greek campaign a frightened
young Italian soldier, soaked in a muddy trench, turned on to his captain saying:
“Captain, but, but… the Greek are shooting at us!” Which quite tells you how
the official propaganda had boosted the thing, pretending that at the only sight
of an Italian uniform the Greek would have lowered their trousers.
Bye.
Bruno.
Is think it’s amazing what a lack of strength the Italian army showed again and again.
I read somewhere that a German officer, commented about them as saying: ‘The average soldier is capable, but undisciplined. The officers are incompetent.’
(Don’t quote me on this, but I think it was something along those lines)
It amazes me that Mussolini, who apparently tried to revive the Roman Empire to a certain extent, neglected his army and let it come to this…
Cesar must have turned in his grave…
Hi-ya !! 
In all fairness the Italian average soldier is no real “warrior”, but that’s not
the main point, I think. Incompetence of officers was essentially determined
by a “save-my-chair” policy and a ambiguous attitude throughout, keeping
eyes wide open to conveniently jump on the winner’s chariot as soon as the
wind changes. As they say “keeping one foot in two shoes”. Never the case
of getting into the thick of fight… how is it that Italy, an actual “bridge” into
the Mediterranean, was never able to provide convoy air/sea patrol/control
to North Africa?
OK, I agree that poor equipment was also part of the overall weakness, but,
hey, Malta was initially air-defended by Gladiators and it was Swordfishes that
attacked and badly shattered half the Italian Navy in Taranto…
Bye.
Bruno.
I have to agree.
Indeed i was alwyas wondering why peoples called the Axis “coalition” , when there were “visibility” of coalition .There were just a separate states who waged its own war-
Japane in the East, Finland in north,Italy in the south and GErmany everywhere:)
The only exception as i know, was a Barbarossa where the some of Romanians, Italians ,Humgarians, even Croatians fought under general German management.
But in most other cases the Germany fought alone , to the contrast the Allied coalition that actualy interacted ,helping to each other, all the war.
I have to agree too , that was the main mistake which caused that Germany turned short of supplies fighting on every side .
Well, but that obviously had political reasons, too. Hitler had it a lot harder finding powerful Allies while at the same time telling his people how much superior they are and how they’ll dominate the world. Who would want to truly ally themselves with somebody they can be sure of that he will fall them in the back as soon as he doesn’t need them anymore?
The Soviets allied themselves with him at the beginning because they were sure they could easily defeat Germany if they should attack - that’s why they were arming themselves as much as they did. And I’m pretty positive that the Soviets would have attacked Germany by '42 or '43 if Germany hadn’t beaten them to it. The two dictators would have never tolerated each other.
Interesting … Actually Hitler had on paper many allies - Hungary , Italy , Vichy France and so on but they were so weak that i doubt on long term they were able to do something , so actually Germany was alone from the begining . As for the Soviets I can’t agree that from the begining of 39’ they knew that they would easily defeat Germany , if that was so why they didn’t simply invade them ? Because Stalin knew what opposition he have to face in such war and the great dissaster of the Finish war prove it , as well as 41-43 period when the germans were hard opponents not to speak about the begining of the war where there was total panic and confusion in the Red Army showing that the Soviet side never thought of plan to attack Germany . And even in the first day of the war Stalin sent a trains with provisions and materials to the Germans if i am not mistaken . The true part is that Stalin had an idea to bring modernisation in the Soviet army by 42’ but actual plan for attack was never written on paper .
I also agree.
Are you capable of writing more than one frigging sentence? Why are you even posting this crap?
Well, Stalin obviously knew that he wasn’t going to be able to defeat Nazi Germany easily, but he still thought he could. However, the failure that the Winter War turned out to be for the Soviets was a wake up call for him, and he realized that his army might not be as powerful at the moment as he had believed. That’s why he started a huge number of changes, and if he had been given the time to finish those, the German Army would have probably never been able to push the Soviets back to Moscow in the first place.
There’s a good chance that Hitler realized how weak the Soviets were in the Winter War, and was smart enough to come to the conclusion that they were going to improve themselves. So he pretty much invaded at the best time possible. The Russians were still weakened from the Winter War, and had not yet fixed their army’s main issues…
Had the Supply lines been able to go along the Army, and had the Army been kept as one powerful spearhead, the Russians might’ve well been defeated…
Well they left because they didn’t want a war on there soil with there terrable army and because they simply did not like hitler as he often belittled italy.