So, If I understand you correctly, when the Arab nations speak of wiping Israel off the map, they merely mean the poltical map and not the topographical map i.e the Sovereign state of Israel will become defunked? Therefore, there would be no more state of Israel - presumably, it would become Palestine - the jewish people which populate the state of Israel whom we currently refer to as Isreali citizens) would be allowed to continue with their lives either in the Arab state of Palestine (let’s pretend, for arugments sake, that it is Palestine) or they will be free to emigrate, as they did when the Romans chucked them out - how will this be achieved?
Let’s suppose, for a moment, that Russia is allowed to join NATO and the EU; that Europe flourishes and everything European becomes hunky-dory, the new world leader/Superpower. Would this lead, inevitably; to war between the U.S and Europe?
Mine’s only one inch…from the ground!
Don’t you find that the problems of Israel are imposed on Americans? Is it really worth viewing the attitude to Israel on behalf of other nations as a sort of main creteria for the US policy abroad?
As for the Islamicists, they actually HAVE gained control through elections, but have shown themselves to be fairly responsible and to rule pretty much as any previous Turkish party, or the military for that matter, has…
You’ve been visited by conspiracy cat!
Gin? You mean vodka or tequila! And no, but I did have a beer to make me sleepy as it was the middle of the night and I get insomnia at times. Unfortunately is was crappy Budweiser. 
Chevan, what evidence do we have that the current Russian gov’t wants anything to do with NATO?
I/m too sick of that Middle East conflict that seems exist just to get zionist additional reasons to reach its own aims.So is this a reason of biased relation toward russia?
The Middle East conflict has little to do with the NATO expansion question, directly anyways…
But stop pretending that it’s all about the Zionist Jews in Israel. That’s a big part of it, as is the US enabling of Israel which seems to be waning ever so slightly. And the Arab states are also at least as equally full of shit as Israel is when it comes to the Palestinian question, a lot of it is about empty rhetoric and using the “Jews” as “boogiemen” to buck up their corrupt, sagging authoritarian gov’ts…
But the thing is about money, oil, and who controls the ever decreasing resource with the rise of China…
[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]Don’t forget about the Congo, the bloodiest orgy of wanton, self-serving violence since WWII…
Well, you have to expect that of jungle bunnies, same as the Mau Mau in Kenya and other pieces of African bloodletting.
If only they were more civilised, like, say, Hitler and Stalin and Mao and Pol Pot, Africa would be so much better. :evil:
Still, the Congo produced the memorable phrase attributed to a BBC reporter asking a group of nuns who’d fled the Congo and later the title of a great book by Edward Behr, “Anybody here been raped and speak English?”
Cynical?
Moi?
Nah!
I’m having a go at your nativity, mate. 
How unkind, could you not allow me to sleep easy in my simple state of blissfull ignorance, mange tout? 
it sadly that in your 37 you have the troubles with a sleep. This is a direct resault of you lovely beer.Stop drink every evening:)
Take the example of the mst Bravo- the sport style of life- the excellent figure and girls love is guaranted.
Not just cats but and real girls will look at you
If i need to make sleep quikly i just use the re-reading of my favorite books: Bevour , Clark and Muhin ( russian popular author). And through few mimutes i get a sleep just like a child:)
Well if you have missed all my previous posts:)…
Let transform this question a bit - what did NATO to notice the russian attempts toward integration and parthership till the 2003?When the Russian relations were the most friend.
The “current Russia” my friend is the bit other state.
We have clearly saw that instead the equal partnership and mutual guaranties- the NATO simply goes further and could not stop.
The Europe is again included in arm race- the new american plans to place nuclear rockets in the Eastern Europe could not make us happy. You should understand it as well as the Washington’s nonsense about “Iran nucler threat”. There is no doubt that those rockets should be directed agains China and … probably Russia.
So you please do not play a fool … asking "what evidence do we have “.
There are a lot of evidences - even today Putin desperatelly try to interact with the NATO. Recently he have offered the idea to use hte Russian Radar Station in the American AAA- global systems- but his idea " did not found the support in the Washington”.
If you think that we russian as much idiots as you have been inspired by you holliwood propoganda and CNN- and we will do nothing watching as the new nuclear rockets are appearing near the our borders:)- i can advice you just to drink a less of beer befor sleep.
The Middle East conflict has little to do with the NATO expansion question, directly anyways…
The Middle East conflict was mentioned JUST top demonstrate you as the members of NATO could behave itself even worsen then Russia and all OK:)
But the thing is about money, oil, and who controls the ever decreasing resource with the rise of China…
That’s just when i hear true thought from you:)
That’s all agains China. But the problem here is the Russia- the political isolation of Russia inevitably should force it to creat pro-china military alliance soon or later.
So in this way we could get soon a real problem of understnding and trust in future.
This is not so funny question as could seen in first view dear Bravo:)
The Russian involving into NATO is a bit other matter than in EU.
As you know though EU occup the terriotry with population over 350 mln - it could not be compared with USA. Neither in the Military nor in economical nor in political influence sense.
The America still rules by the world:)
The Union Europe is still wery weak as the Union of states that could protect its common interests.But EU do develop it need the new resources- therefor Russia could be very usefull for it.
Together with Russian EU could be actually one of the most world centre and could succesfully resist even the Chinas economucal expansion as well as Americans.
As we know the Europe was never enough independent form USA after the end of the ww2.The Americans carefully watched for Europe since the Marshall plan has been realized.
Even the military structure NATO was created by the USA mainly as a mean of protection and moving of its interests forward.
From pure geopolitical point of view - Washington is not interested but TOO independent Europe- they do not wish the one more strong competitor for America;)
And you as European should realize the difference of the European and American approaches toward Russia.
This is pure geopolitica nothing personal.
The strategy of Washington toward russia is to isolate us from the rest Europe via the creation of belt pro-american states and supportion anti-russians pseudo-democratic pro-americans regimes simular like in Georgia where the local dictator rules as he want or like in Ukraine where the different group of oligarhs beat each other in fight for power.Sad but there a lot of rusophobs and nationalist in Eastern Europe that ready to blame the neighbourd state in his personal problems.
Unfortinatelly for the Europe - direct resault of that American policy is the shortage of enegry sources and as the consequence - the problems with economical rise in the EU.
So you should see that the anti-russian american policy ( that often is covered by “care about democracy” and “worry about rise of dictatorship” in Russia) in fact is a policy agains Europe.Even the inner behaviour of Putin in mach scale is determined by this american policy:)( i mean when he has closed the American sponsored media organisations in Russia).
The Russian try to neitralize this policy via the more close economical contacts with old members like Germany. The new gas and oil project are realising today with this aim.
But untill now the USA succesfully use the “old card” - anti-russian fears and prejudices of Europeans.
And Europe lose…They lose the European base of resources - Russia:)
On the contrary the Americans even do not wish to isolate themself from the resources.
USA has already captured the Iraq oil field by the most insolent and direct way - via the military invasion. now they prepeare the new invation into Iran with simular aims.
Also they State Department officially declared the zone of Kaspij sea ( the other rich of resources place) as a zone of American interests.
So they play a geopolitical game with great success- the EU is a kid in comparition with USA:)
So do not make a tragical mistake my friend- the Russia is a part of Europe - we should be together finally. Coz we have no any more choise - we do not wish to be a part of China or be teared into the pieces by the USA in the many “independent” oil and banan states otherway .
Wasn’t meant to be ‘funny’ in any sense of the word, old chap.
The Russian involving into NATO is a bit other matter than in EU.
As you know though EU occup the terriotry with population over 350 mln - it could not be compared with USA. Neither in the Military nor in economical nor in political influence sense.
The America still rules by the world:)
The Union Europe is still wery weak as the Union of states that could protect its common interests.But EU do develop it need the new resources- therefor Russia could be very usefull for it.
Together with Russian EU could be actually one of the most world centre and could succesfully resist even the Chinas economucal expansion as well as Americans.
This is what I was aiming at when posing (not a typo) the question.
As we know the Europe was never enough independent form USA after the end of the ww2.The Americans carefully watched for Europe since the Marshall plan has been realized.
Even the military structure NATO was created by the USA mainly as a mean of protection and moving of its interests forward.
Britain guaranteed Belgian neutrality in oder to create a buffer-zone between itself and Germany. The USSR occupied eastern European states for pretty much the same reason.
From pure geopolitical point of view - Washington is not interested but TOO independent Europe- they do not wish the one more strong competitor for America;)
Agreed…
And you as European should realize the difference of the European and American approaches toward Russia.
This is pure geopolitica nothing personal.
…and again.
So you should see that the anti-russian american policy ( that often is covered by “care about democracy”
Liberty, freedom and democracy are all a bit of a sham. No one is free in its altruistic sense, to be so one would have to live on a different planet.
The Russian try to neitralize this policy via the more close economical contacts with old members like Germany. The new gas and oil project are realising today with this aim.
The British people are very concerned regarding our possible dependence on Russian gas and oil, hence (or at least in part) the latest policies on further developing neuclear power sources.
But untill now the USA succesfully use the “old card” - anti-russian fears and prejudices of Europeans.
And Europe lose…They lose the European base of resources - Russia:)
I refer the gentleman to my previous comment.
On the contrary the Americans even do not wish to isolate themself from the resources.
USA has already captured the Iraq oil field by the most insolent and direct way - via the military invasion. now they prepeare the new invation into Iran with simular aims.
Also they State Department officially declared the zone of Kaspij sea ( the other rich of resources place) as a zone of American interests.
So they play a geopolitical game with great success- the EU is a kid in comparition with USA:)
So do not make a tragical mistake my friend- the Russia is a part of Europe - we should be together finally. Coz we have no any more choise - we do not wish to be a part of China or be teared into the pieces by the USA in the many “independent” oil and banan states otherway .
Well, there is a long road to tavel you will be able to convince the West of that. The headliner, which I posted from the ‘Telegraph’ earlier, did more damage to British perceptions of Russian trustworthiness, and it isn’t the U.S. that is to blame for those headlines, but President Putin - very foolish if he wishes to garner good relations with Britain.
There is truth and there is perception - and perception is everything!
Personally, I have become so cynical regarding governments and their policies and their ability to bamboozle the people that I mistrust most. You may be speaking with utmost sincerity, but do I know that somene hasn’t been pulling your strings since the time of your youth without you being awar of it?
I was raised a Roman Catholic - “Give me a child of seven…” the Jesuits used to say “…and he’s mine for life!” (they obviously never met RS ;)).
Wars are usually fought for economic reasons - supply and demand - ‘You have something I want, and so I’m taking it!’ e.g. ‘Cod’ :D. http://www.btinternet.com/~warship/Feature/cod/index.htm
So getting back to my question, I think what you are saying is thta you agree that a Europe which included Russia would eventually mean a war between Europe and the U.S. (and that’s before we even get on to the subject of China).
Keep the faith my friend, their’s hope for mankind yet.
I have no argument with that, per se. Could it be that the U.S. by their historic support for Israel have created this situation i.e ‘made a rod for their own back’? Is it not true that their is a strong and powerful, Jewish lobby of American citizens that prevent the U.S. from excluding Israel as a main criteria of its foreign policy?
Oh sorry my stoopid english:)
Britain guaranteed Belgian neutrality in oder to create a buffer-zone between itself and Germany. The USSR occupied eastern European states for pretty much the same reason.
The USSR is not existed already 17 years- so we need to move forward.
Liberty, freedom and democracy are all a bit of a sham. No one is free in its altruistic sense, to be so one would have to live on a different planet.
The British people are very concerned regarding our possible dependence on Russian gas and oil, hence (or at least in part) the latest policies on further developing neuclear power sources.
I refer the gentleman to my previous comment.
This is not possible dependence on Russia my friend , but the MUTUAL economical dependence - i.e the normal process for the member of EU. As you know the strong mutual dependence is the guaranty that the war would never happand. Actually - why we should fight each other for resources ( coz in fact the ALL wars are the the wars for resources) if the Europe could simply use our russian resources without any problems.
So this is normal way to sign the new contracts with Russia - this is good for all of us.
But SOME FORCES try to describe this in the west as the “increase of dependence on Russia”.
This is a just attempt to use the old fears agains the Europe ( that i told above).
Do not forget the Russia would export the gas and oil anyway- if not in Europe, then to the China.
Well, there is a long road to tavel you will be able to convince the West of that. The headliner, which I posted from the ‘Telegraph’ earlier, did more damage to British perceptions of Russian trustworthiness, and it isn’t the U.S. that is to blame for those headlines, but President Putin - very foolish if he wishes to garner good relations with Britain.
There is truth and there is perception - and perception is everything!
Here something more that just about the Putin.
You should realize that Putin behave as the rat that drived into corner - he try to neitralize that damage of russian influence and reputation( i hope you will not deny the russian right for influence in world:)).
The all Russian-British scandal is nothing but tinsel of some more importaint things in the world.
He just try to show that the TIMES when the West determined what to do have finished.
He openly declared the russian independence and he try to restore the authority state power inside, that was fully losed by the always drunk Yeltsyn.
You should look at the root of problem - we have the only one final solution- we sould be in Europe, but till this most moment we should save the russia and prevent the possible bloody ethnical conflicts as in Yugoslavia.
While Putin succesfully has decided the very danger Chechen’s problem ( that was created previously by 'democrat Yeltsysn")
Personally, I have become so cynical regarding governments and their policies and their ability to bamboozle the people that I mistrust most. You may be speaking with utmost sincerity, but do I know that somene hasn’t been pulling your strings since the time of your youth without you being awar of it?
You still do not trust for the true:)
I speak sincerely not becouse just i like you , but becouse this is objective process of globalization- there no other choise we have. We would be part of Europe or part of Asia or (save god ) the part of muslim middle east…
I vote for Europe…
So getting back to my question, I think what you are saying is thta you agree that a Europe which included Russia would eventually mean a war between Europe and the U.S. (and that’s before we even get on to the subject of China).
No there will never a war if russia will save its nuclear potential.
Coz USA will not attack the EU in this way:)They simply will have no monopoly for the Absolute World Military power:)
Therefor Putin does right trying to reanimate the old russian Strategic missles, bombers and submarins.
Not to attack somebody - this would be the most stopid desicion, but to save the Russia , Europe and world from the absolute destructive monopoly of US.
Keep the faith my friend, their’s hope for mankind yet.
I/m always keep the faith in my heart my fried.
I/m not religious but i believe…
Do you not think that your mistrust of the U.S. is a mirror image of the mistrust westrners have for Russia?
If you are unable to come to terms with the U.S. how do you expect it to work the other way around with Europeans, after all, the Europeans share much the same political phylosophy as the U.S. i.e. market driven demcracies ( I use the term ‘democracy’ loosely)?
It’s not really that “sad.” I’ve always had “trouble” with sleep since ever I can remember. In fact, I actually have less trouble as I get older…
This is a direct resault of you lovely beer.Stop drink every evening:)
Perhaps. I’m well aware of the ‘alcohol rebound effect.’ But the truth is, I have insomnia when I do not drink as well.
And FYI, I don’t drink every evening…
Take the example of the mst Bravo- the sport style of life- the excellent figure and girls love is guaranted.
Bravo is a stud, but girls like me too. 
And I was also a workout maniac at one time. And I probably will be one again.
Not just cats but and real girls will look at you
Both cats and real girls look at me brother. It’s more about charm and confidence with women anyways. I have both, especially with your Russian girls…
If i need to make sleep quikly i just use the re-reading of my favorite books: Bevour , Clark and Muhin ( russian popular author). And through few mimutes i get a sleep just like a child:)
Well I read a lot, but I tend to get even more tense depending on the subject matter. I do really need to start running again though. But in truth, that really only helps to a certain extent…