But I am stupid!
I’m also a morron!
Zhukov lost a lot of man because war factor . He command battle of Moskov in 1941 and have smaller number in tank and gun .And his enemy have more technology and skill by far .He command people of Stalingrad to fight with 6th Panzer armee who r the strongest army in the world and win. Operation Uranus were one of the best military move and chang the face of the war .In Kursk he have more men and more tank in ratio 1.5/1 not mean he have stronger force .German force take a lot of country and make 10 on 1 killing ratio as daily task . New Panzer and Tiger can make 5 on 1 killing ratio on ally tank.But he can win
Operation Bagration Zhukov control whole front and miss inform German and let them redeployed one third of Group Army Centre’s artillery, half their tank destroyers and eighty eight percent of their tanks to the Southern front where the German high command expected the next major Soviet offensive.
And make The Soviets were able to achieve a ratio of ten to one in tanks and seven to one in aircraft over their enemy. At the points of attack then Rokossovski use this advantage to take German .But Rokossovski should credit in case of he make 2 penetration point and make German hard too retreat.
He not only have battle tactic . He control grand strategy and help Soviet to win the war.
“One of my favourite Russian General is Marshal Zhukov.
Marshal Zhukov - marshal of the victory During its centuries-old history Russian state repeatedly underwent aggression.” Vorontsov
Man. I am frightened. You say you are a schoolboy. Am I right? Your teacher of history must be a sort of gaga communist. Zhukov’s talents has very little to do with ability to win battles effectively without incurring heavy losses. All the intellectual work that dealt with planning military operations was fulfilled by his deputies, other Soviet generals who had an ability and telant to accomplish it. After the plan was ready there was Zhukov’s turn. He had to ensure that Soviet troops would fulfill the plan and orders at any cost ( start offensives in time, seize some towns or strategic points etc. regardless the fact that such offensives for plenty of Soviet units was a suicide.) His methods to achieve this goal were extremely brutal. There were pleny testimonies that he swore all the time, insult, humiliate and even beat soviet officers in front of others. He didn’t value the lives of Soviet soldiers. His reactions to the extremely high rate of losses among soldiers under his command was " Ничего мамки еще солдат народят " ( I don’t care. Women will give birth to lots of other soldiers ). The cult of his personality was initiated after Stalin’s death when he aided Krushchov to seize power and square accounts with Beria. One of the greatest manifestation of Zhukov’s military telants was military exercises conducted after the war in Kazahstan. Zhukov suggested that about 30000 Soviet troops should pass through the areas where an A-bomb was tested a few hours before imitating an assault on enemy’s positions after a nueclear strike. He decided that it will be a unique demonstration of Soviet power. As a result of it 30000 sound males became invalids and died in agony in the following years.
Well the comride Vorontsov is a good boy.
He is not UPA nationalist unlike you Kato.
And he is right, inspite of all his lacks the Zhukov was a one of the best soviet General.
And the peoples memory remember it good untill now.
Zhukov’s talents has very little to do with ability to win battles effectively without incurring heavy losses. All the intellectual work that dealt with planning military operations was fulfilled by his deputies, other Soviet generals who had an ability and telant to accomplish it. After the plan was ready there was Zhukov’s turn.
this is the pure DEMAGOGY.
Each hight general is responsible for the competention and professionalism of his stuff- its depend of his ability to be as a hight commander.
The Zhukov had personally formed his staff( as any other high commander)
He had to ensure that Soviet troops would fulfill the plan and orders at any cost ( start offensives in time, seize some towns or strategic points etc. regardless the fact that such offensives for plenty of Soviet units was a suicide.)
This is the not the only soviet prerogative but and Germans also.
There a lot of cases when Hitlers did not let the Germans to leave the cuptured cities and areas for the ONLY political aims.
Moreover fr instance the such a inportaint battles ( both in war and political sense) like battle for the Moscow and Stalingrad when the the question was -who will won the war in the East - there is no other choice to use the any possibility for the victory including the lives of own soldiers.
But i know you are incapable to understand this …
His methods to achieve this goal were extremely brutal. There were pleny testimonies that he swore all the time, insult, humiliate and even beat soviet officers in front of others.
Yes sometimes he used a fists , but i did not heare the somebody of those generals complained about it in its memours ( vise verse the everybody respected him)
He didn’t value the lives of Soviet soldiers. His reactions to the extremely high rate of losses among soldiers under his command was " Ничего мамки еще солдат народят " ( I don’t care. Women will give birth to lots of other soldiers ).
This is false…
If he really told this during the war this inevitably will has the bad consequences for him form NKVD.
The cult of his personality was initiated after Stalin’s death when he aided Krushchov to seize power and square accounts with Beria.
He simply was the FIRST men who controlled the Soviet Army after the deaths of Stalin. So this is old propogandic fary tells about his cult.
Later during the Khrushev come to the power his role even continiously decreased.
One of the greatest manifestation of Zhukov’s military telants was military exercises conducted after the war in Kazahstan. Zhukov suggested that about 30000 Soviet troops should pass through the areas where an A-bomb was tested a few hours before imitating an assault on enemy’s positions after a nueclear strike. He decided that it will be a unique demonstration of Soviet power. As a result of it 30000 sound males became invalids and died in agony in the following years.
And what will you say clever boy ,if i tell you that the USA army also had a A-bombing tests with participation of american troops ?
Those kind of test was a tupical for the end of 1940 -1950-yy in the boths USA and USSR when there were still a litlle understanding about radiation.
BTW the Zhukov war talant still much more then the “war genius” of the leaderd of terrorist UPA-OUN groups. The all what they were capable to invent - was just the “ethnic clearings” of the civil population of the western Ukraine . Nothing more.
He didn’t value the lives of Soviet soldiers. His reactions to the extremely high rate of losses among soldiers under his command was " Ничего мамки еще солдат народят " ( I don’t care. Women will give birth to lots of other soldiers ).
This is false…
If he really told this during the war this inevitably will has the bad consequences for him form NKVD.
Don’t make me laugh. The NKVD troops were used as заград. отряды (special detachment that shot at the backs of Soviet Soldiers if they didn’t show much zeal in assaulting German positions) According to Chevan NKVD was an organisation of humanists that did nothing but protected the basic principles of humanism.
Kato, this is a topic about Generals right, I deleted your 2 completely off topic post in here.
Also I recomend you download your tone when you are questioning other member , the agressivenes in not allowed here.
I fully second Panzerknacker.
Zhukov war talant still much more then the “war genius” of the leaderd of terrorist UPA-OUN groups. The all what they were capable to invent - was just the “ethnic clearings” of the civil population of the western Ukraine . Nothing more.
Chevan
Is it much to the point and it complies with the topic to say that Ukrainians invented ethnic clearings?
And why did you delete my post where I explained that the military exercises conducted this “war genius” Zhukov lead to the death of 30000 Soviet troops from radiation due to his derogation of human lives. He conduced these exercises long afterwards the bombing of Heroshima and Nagasaki when the destructive effects of radiation was known to everyone. I just expressed my opinion about one of the discussed generals. What was wrong with it?
My favourite Russian general is Vlasov, because he fought aggainist communists.
by the way: Russians liberated Prague, but in German uniforms. 
(ROA)
“Cannibal marshal” Zhukov (who often did costly massed frontal attacks and sent telegrams (see telegram 4976) announcing that families of soldiers captured by Germans and returned prisoners would be shot) is the funniest because he was so brutal, he lost often and still managed to create “public image” that he was victorious
At Istra Reservoir all the soviet commanders tried to explain him that “we need to withdraw”, but poor Zhukov just didn’t get it, and as a result germans got huge victory and a soviet army got annihilated.
Some historians say totally failed second Rzhev-Sychevka Offensive was meant to be more important than Battle of Stalingrad for Russians, but wouldn’t you know, Zhukov managed to miscarry that too.
At the Battle of Berlin Zhukov was so sloooow that Konev’s unit even managed to explore area above Hitler’s bunker before the poor Zhukov managed to arrive there.
And his memoirs is completely filled with errors as many soviet commanders have pointed out.
_
But from this prospect the best general is … Further of Germany.
Coz he was a best fighter agains Bolshevism.
Whatever you think guys, but today i,m cleraly know - the best soviet Genaral was…Comride Stalin.
He was only the strategist in Red Army.
But i’ve read the book about him - when after the war the Soviet Stuff was in conflict with Zuckov - he defended Zickov by such words-“Leave him - he was not so talent commander like Rokossovskij, but he was at least as good as Konev”.
So i think he is clearly expressed his personal answer who was the best- General Rokossovskij.
The Polish-russian man who should captured the Berlin together with Konev, but was removed by Stalin one month befor.
I’m agree with you: General Andrey Andreyevich Vlasov
Извените у меня нет переводчика. Sory i dont have a translator. Если он освободитель, то почему он и его подченённые убивали мирное население, подло стреляли им в спину. Это относится ко всем “освободителям” против сталинского режима например РОА, УПА и т.д. И вообще он трус, попал в окружение и захотел выжить, вот и сказал, что против Сталина и народа, так что, он чистой воды придатель!
Извените у меня нет переводчика. Sory i dont have a translator. Если он освободитель, то почему он и его подченённые убивали мирное население, подло стреляли им в спину. Это относится ко всем “освободителям” против сталинского режима например РОА, УПА и т.д. И вообще он трус, попал в окружение и захотел выжить, вот и сказал, что против Сталина и народа, так что, он чистой воды придатель!
The brief essence is of the post is that UPA and ROA soldiers are criminals and betrayers who killed civilians.
There is the principal difference between ROA and UPA. UPA was founded by the the Organization of Ukrainian nationalists ( Ukrainian military organization in the 1920s) that had fought in the Western Ukraine against the Polish occupation since 192Os. Their attitude to Stalin and the Soviet Union was clear from the very beginning. The ROA was formed by Germans from the Soviet POWs and have never been an independent structure
Да, но я к чему веду, что они были не освободителями, особенно Власов, а предатели.
Да, но я к чему веду, что они были не освободителями, особенно Власов, а предатели.
Brief translation
They, especially Vlasov, were traitors.
Well it is correct in regards of Vlasov who was a Soviet general and it means he was an active and important part of the Soviet regime.
However, it is not true in respect of the Ukrainian nationalists and insurgents who always
declared the Soviet regime, communists as one of their main enemies.
So how is it possible to betray someone who you openly call and treat as enemy all the time?
It is not true in respect of those Ukrainians and others who were mobilized to the Red Army and later decided to join UPA as they knew that joining UPA did not give them any benefits and did not save their lives. On the contrary they knew it would decrease their chances to survive.
Vorontsov, no more cirilic please.
Good Comride Vorontsov.
You are in a right way;)
Just please use the translataror my fried
http://babelfish.altavista.com/tr
And you are forgetting Kato about Jews and Poles in Ukraine- they also were declared as a “main enemies” By UPA-OUN leaders in 1941 when Germans had come to Ukraine 
The cruel “ethnical clearising” in Volun and Galicia - this is the good evidence of it.
So how is it possible to betray someone who you openly call and treat as enemy all the time?
Yes…
But they betrayed not the USSR, thay betrayed the our Anti-germnans coailitin.
Theu fight not as much with Germans as with polish AK and Soviet partisans and troops ( who fight agaist fascist).
And they betrayed and fought with the GIANT part of Ukraines who sincerely fought together with Red Army and soviet partisans.
It is not true in respect of those Ukrainians and others who were mobilized to the Red Army and later decided to join UPA as they knew that joining UPA did not give them any benefits and did not save their lives. On the contrary they knew it would decrease their chances to survive.
But you are ignoring fact that the MOST of ukrainians joined not to the UPA but to the Soviet partisans ( especially in the central and easter-southern regions).
In fact that the Soviet partisans WERE the most mass ANTI-GERMAN force in Ukraine till the 1944.