Zimbabwe - ready for intervention??

Site Issues 2008 Archive Room
#21

Do we force, for example, doctors and nurses to migrate from Africa?

Who makes that choice?

If African doctors, nurses and whatever other best and brightest are free to migrate to other countries, why does that happen?

Should we regard the nations which accept them as exploiters or regard the best and brightest people who desert Africa as traitors to their national need?

Dubya ain’t my favourite politician, but what about this?

Bush Has Quietly Tripled Aid to Africa
Increase in Funding to Impoverished Continent Is Viewed as Altruistic or Pragmatic

By Michael A. Fletcher
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, December 31, 2006; A04

President Bush’s legacy is sure to be defined by his wielding of U.S. military power in Afghanistan and Iraq, but there is another, much softer and less-noticed effort by his administration in foreign affairs: a dramatic increase in U.S. aid to Africa.

The president has tripled direct humanitarian and development aid to the world’s most impoverished continent since taking office and recently vowed to double that increased amount by 2010 – to nearly $9 billion.

The moves have surprised – and pleased – longtime supporters of assistance for Africa, who note that because Bush has received little support from African American voters, he has little obvious political incentive for his interest.

“I think the Bush administration deserves pretty high marks in terms of increasing aid to Africa,” said Steve Radelet, a senior fellow at the Center for Global Development.

Bush has increased direct development and humanitarian aid to Africa to more than $4 billion a year from $1.4 billion in 2001, according to the Paris-based Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. And four African nations – Sudan, Ethiopia, Egypt and Uganda – rank among the world’s top 10 recipients in aid from the United States.

So, who is responsible for Mugabe belting the shit out of his people in the past few weeks to keep him in power? Ian Smith? Queen Elizabeth II?

Who has been belting the shit out of the people in Zimbabwe?

The British SAS?

The Horse Guards?

The Black Watch?

Any military unit from any other country?

Anyone else from any other country?

No, it’s all within Zimbabwe and all Mugabe and Co.

It’s time for these bastards to be held to account, which has nothing to do with colonialism.

After all, Mugabe is there purely because he was a revolutionary who ejected the colonialists.

Mugabe is fully responsible for everything that happens under him. Any other view is just refusing to accept reality.

#22

yes. But that doesn’t deny its nobility. A bad priest doesn’t make for a bad God.

#23

Let him keep the gong… to remind us how we suck up to tyrants
Last updated at 8:00 PM on 28th June 2008

I don’t care about Zimbabwe and nor do you. Nor do the Government, the Opposition, the BBC or the rest of the fashionable Establishment currently wailing, with all the insincerity of paid mourners at a Victorian funeral, about how terrible Sir Robert Mugabe is.

Nor do I think Sir Robert’s knighthood should be taken away. I wish he’d use it all the time and roam around Harare in his ceremonial KCB robes.

This award was given to him by a Tory Government long after he had proved himself to be a mass murderer and a despot. So why act all surprised and disapproving now?

It should serve as a permanent reminder of our national willingness to suck up to tyrants and killers when it suits us, especially useful when our leaders go through one of their messianic spasms and start launching do-gooding invasions.

Of course, I’m moved and distressed by the courage and suffering there. But that doesn’t really mean anything.

If they set up a recruiting stall for an International Brigade to rescue Zimbabwe, I wouldn’t go, and nor would you.

It’s just a picture show, a distant story over which I have no real power. It’s far easier to get a TV crew into a foreign country than it is to send an armoured division.

It’s also far easier to get them out. And, in any case, it’s not especially selfless or charitable to campaign for someone else to go off and fight a battle you have no plans to join yourself.

To the extent that anyone in Britain gives a tinker’s curse about Zimbabwe, we happily hustled it off to its doom, glad to be rid of the responsibility, nearly 30 years ago.

A British (Tory) Government rewarded the future Sir Robert’s continuing violence, toppled the properly elected democratic black leader Bishop Abel Muzorewa, and forced Marxist despotism on to the country.
In February 1980, the future Sir Robert used brutality and intimidation to ‘win’ an election, in clear breach of the Lancaster House Agreement he had signed.

The Thatcher Government pretended not to notice - though this was perhaps the last time we could have acted.

I fail to recall any mass protests about these things, or against Sir Robert’s later Matabeleland massacres.

Fashionable opinion, whose attention span makes a gnat’s look deep, had by then moved on to some other cause.

And for those of you too young to remember the Zimbabwe sellout in 1979, don’t think similar things haven’t happened in your lifetime and with your consent.

In March 1998, everyone in Britain (except me) simpered and applauded when we spat on the rule of law and handed Northern Ireland over to terrorists and protection rackets.

That will come back to haunt us too, just you wait and see.

#24

No we are not. But, as you mention it, prositutes have a right to choose who they sleep with.

My concern is for the hundreds of thousands of innocent victims who are fucked by the system everyday.

#25

No, the West is not just US and UK. Europe is a part of the West and Germany is a part of Europe. It is also a former colonial power having held colonies in East Africa, so Germany’s hands are no cleaner than any of the other countries which were involved in the economic exploitation of Africa and, thus, Africans. Slaves continued to be trafficked through German East-African colonies to Zanzibar up until the time of WW1.

Yes they have had time to build a new Africa, but exploitation of Africa by the West didn’t end with the indendence of former colonies. The Mugabe regime is a product of that exploitation and it will probably be well into the twenty-second century before the continent recovers from it. The problems there appear to be cyclical and it will take a great deal of effort from many nations to correct them.

#26

No. But the stage for perpetual anarchy that makes emigration desirable for Africa’s intellectual elites was set long ago.

I know this well as one of my university professors fled Rwanda…

If African doctors, nurses and whatever other best and brightest are free to migrate to other countries, why does that happen?

Should we regard the nations which accept them as exploiters or regard the best and brightest people who desert Africa as traitors to their national need?

Because they have little incentive to stay…

But my point is more along the lines of imagining if some of the better western leaders had been abducted and forced to work on plantations in America. Or were simply wiped out on a Belgian pricks whim…

Dubya ain’t my favourite politician, but what about this?

Dubya is reacting too pressure brought about by his Christian constituency regarding the Sudan (but not enough so) and by relief efforts of Bono, who has been enormously influential. This despite the fact that he used to harrass the White House staff of Dubya’s father by calling and demanding to speak to “George” on stage during the Zoo TV tour in 1992! :slight_smile:

So, who is responsible for Mugabe belting the shit out of his people in the past few weeks to keep him in power? Ian Smith? Queen Elizabeth II?

Who has been belting the shit out of the people in Zimbabwe?

The British SAS?

The Horse Guards?

The Black Watch?

Any military unit from any other country?

Anyone else from any other country?

No, it’s all within Zimbabwe and all Mugabe and Co.

I think I clearly stated this in my response. I said it was Mugabe, and his inner circle of bastards that are directly responsible. But they did not simply arrive out of a vacuum…

It’s time for these bastards to be held to account, which has nothing to do with colonialism.

After all, Mugabe is there purely because he was a revolutionary who ejected the colonialists.

Mugabe is fully responsible for everything that happens under him. Any other view is just refusing to accept reality.

I couldn’t agree more. But for people to say that the West plays no part in Africa is tremendously short cited, callous, and immoral…

I don’t know what the answers are. But it starts with supporting those that wish to remove Mugabe and his click of bastards…

#27

On the contrary, to simplify the history of Africa, and Zimbabwe in this instance, is simply to deny history and its effect.

To insist that all the troubles which have blighted Africa is on account of an inherent evil within Africans is simply racist.

Regarding: who has been belting the shit out of Zimbabweans?

Those comments are spurious.

#28

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article4406837.ece

#29

Just a note, I today read they just circulated the 500-billion-dollar note in Zimbabwe!

#30

Tell ye why the West won’t go in there, cause the West will be accused of racism, just like that hypocrite mandela accused the West when “we” criticised his invasion of Lesotho for their natural resources…That’s it in a nutshell…

Add to that, “Black Africa” is two dimensional in it’s thinking…From the bottum upwards…

#31

By two-dimensional, I take it you mean Black and White, and by bottom upwards you mean Blacks at the bottom and Whites at the top?

http://apps.facebook.com/ilike/artist/Spitting+Image/track/Nice+South+African?apv=1

http://www.truveo.com/Spitting-Image-Lets-Speak-Afrikaans/id/1882068952

#32

Nope…Please don’t take this the wrong way, but that is the usual assuming response to either one or the other ways of thinking…Your black and feel “opressed”, or your white and feel guilty…Both have no real merit from my statement…

The powers that be in Africa are two dimensional in their thinking…I’ll expand…The “West” is three dimensional in it’s thinking…

#33

Ever heard of the Xhosa?..the self inflicted famine of 1856 when they killed all their cattle and burned their grains so as to apease their gods who would then throw the white man into the sea?..WEll, when their gods didn’t turn up and they where starving, who did they look to for food?..The white man ofcourse, coz their “brothers” gave them f… all…Look it up, the Xhosa famine of 1856…

#34

And tell how did the sanctions work?
Did it make sufferings of locals more easy?Or did it help to overthrow dictators?
Even military action-USA has “liberated” Iraq - does somebody say then “Thank you” around except the puppet gowenment in Bahdad.( that can’t survive a single day without American support to them)
But in the Iraq there is the oil at least - what are going to get from Zimbabwe, i wish to ask?
The happy, thankful afro-americnas amd locals?

#35

Formally this is a racism.
But i have to say that you sir partly right with Africa.

#36

ahhh…The racist card…

#37

Very well said mate.
You are always like an politic in front of you voters:)Nice such your speechs.
Actualy why we shall impose the “Human rights” to a people who don’t even guess about it.
And who don’t even wish it.
We are don’t demand ,for instance from Saudi , that executed it’s criminals publicaly , cutting them head off, that this is amoral according our Human rights.Why we don’t invade the Iran just for thier religious fanatics don’t share our human rights views?
So why we shall impose to some africans, who probably think that “meat from body of their enemy” is a good dinner and who eats each others - that the best thing in the world is our Human rights.
Of cource some sort of africans probably should be glad of our finantial and food help, but is this a most desirable way of their wishes?

#38

I was being sarcastic, old boy. :smiley:

#39

Oh mate , sorry . I 'm too old boy:)

#40

We are all aware of this, old chum, and grant you special dispensation. :smiley: