Infantry antitank weapons.

World War II Russian Military
#1

Soviet mine dogs.

the isea was simple a trained dog carrieng 7 kg of heavy explosives launched to the underbelly of german tank and other armoured vehicles. pretty bad for the suicide animal. :roll:

Soviets tested the AT dogs during the military conflict with Japan in 1939 quite successfully, destroying several Japanese light tanks.
In August 1941 Soviets had 10 army units of AT dogs (consisted of 4 companies till July 1942, later - of 2 companies. Each company had 126 dogs). Such At dog units also had AT rifles platoons and snipers for killing the missed dogs with explosives. The first action AT dogs saw during the battle of Moscow in autumn 1941, 28th unit of AT dogs destroyed 42 German tanks and 2 armoured cars during the battle of Stalingrad. In one battle 15 from 17 dogs could reached the German tanks.

till October 1943 (when AT dog units were disbanded) Soviet Army had 2 regiments of AT dogs and 168 separate units, battalions and companies of AT dogs. Taking into consideration such big amount of AT dog units 300 destroyed German tanks seems reasonable, even not enough for 2 regiments and 168 units (that means that every unit with hundreds dogs could destroy only 2 tanks in average, a very ineffective, I would say…If the info about 28th unit is correct - 44 destroyed German AFVs during one battle, that means that the majority of AT dog units was completely unsuccessful!)

In principle, this idea is very strange as Soviet Army had quite sufficient amount of infantry AT rifles during the battle of Moscow and Stalingrad and using good AT rifles against tanks seems for me much more effective, safety and cheaper than unpredictable dog with two AT mines.

#2

About the first image:

“A soviet dog mine in training, or so it would appear. What is interesting about this picture is that although the training tank does not have a real gun, its turret appears to be that of the T-34/85. The T-34/85 was not introduced until 1944, yet dog mines were supposed to have been withdrawn in 1942!”

From:
http://www.soviet-empire.com/arsenal/army/anti-tank/dog_mine/dog_mine_001.php

#3

More pics of the Minenhunde.


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#4

14,5mm PTRD antitank rifle:

The Red Army was alone among the major combatants in that it never produced a viable anti tank weapon for its infantry throughout the course of the war. The PTRD 1941 was available in time for the German invasion, but unfortunately its ammunition was not, so the Red Army found itself introducing the weapon during 1942; the same year the British and German armies were relegating their designs to the scrapheap.

The PTDR ( initials from Degytiarev Antitank Rifle) was a single shot , bolt action, crew served (one aim and shot and other load) WEAPON.

The Russian weapon saw widespread use against the ever heavier German tanks. It was useless in a frontal assault, and the weapon was too cumbersome to consider stalking for a rear engine shot. Instead, against tanks it was used to target soft points such as visor screens or periscopes, blinding the crew. While it may seem a desperate tactic an entire generation of ‘super heavy’ sniper rifles currently exists to target vulnerable electronic equipment in an identical fashion. It was also useful against buildings or bunkers. .

The 14,5 (14,5x114) AP steel core round had a muzzle velocity of 1003 m/s and penetrate 30mm armor at 150 meters in a vertical plate.

#5

Aditional info:

#6

Hi Panzerkcnakcer.
Actually PTRD and PTRS were a good AT weapon against german Pz II,III or IV and especially against the lightly armored purposes.

PTRD and PTRS weren’t the first soviet AT rifle. The first was the 14.5-mm AT rifle of Rukavishnikov (1939).

But it had not wide application in Red Army.(because on experience of battles 1939-1941 it seems for soviets generals the tendency to improve tank armour ).
But after the gemnan offence in 1941 it was used much light and medium tanks ( Pz-I, II and even captured French “Reno”). Stalin ordered to begin mass production PTRS and PTRD.

PTRS

http://moscowbattle.narod.ru/weapons/ptrd.html
…The baptism of fire anti-tank gun passed on 16 November, 1941, near the Moscow, in the region of the villages of the Petelins - Shiryaevo, eight antitank riflemen, shooting with 150 - 200 m, destroyed two average German tanks. Subsequent combat confirmed the high qualities of weapon. Thus, in combat for the station meadow in one of the hit enemy tanks proved to be 18 through holes…

As early as 1938 was provided for the application of guns not only against the tanks, but also against other purposes: armored carriers, armored cars, machine guns, antitank guns.
In the course of World War II this list was extended. PTR repeatedly shot at the enemy aircraft, but antitank rifleman A. Denisov 14 and on 15 July, 1943, under Orel brought down two Fascist bombers.(Perhaps it was Ju-87)
Anti-tank guns for the Soviet partisans proved to be present finding. For them they were, in fact, only weapon against the german tankettes and the armored cars.

Also It had very good job in Stalingrad.

http://www.sudden-strike.ru/history/detail.php?ID=2754&print=Y
The company of antitank riflemen to death stood on one of the sections. When reinforcement arrived in the place of struggle, it found terrible picture.
Two German tanks thickened on the positions, the corpses of tankers next were dragged along.
The body of Soviet antitank rifleman lay between the broken caterpillars of tank. Another soldier, riddled by the bullets of machine gun, lay on the earth, strongly compressing anti-tank gun, directed to the side of the hit tanks. Around everything was black from the fire and the earth reversed by projectiles…

After the Stalingrad battle and appearing new german tanks (Tigers , Panzer ant ets) the role of AT rifles were decreased.
But even today PTRD could be effective against modern “BTR-80” , “BMP-1,2,3” or “Bradly”.

#7

It’s not correct , mate.
German also had some kinds of AT rifles.
Similar weapon had also Polish (till 1939) and Chech army .

Polish 7.92-mm AT rifle (1935)

http://armor.kiev.ua/army/hist/ptr-1.shtml
Designers of gun - polish officer Felstin and the graduate of Warsaw polytechnic university engineer the Eji Maroschuk.
So that the mass of gun would not exceed 10 kg, they selected rifle calibr. with the caliber of cartridge 7,92 mm the length of brass bottle flangeless case it became considerably more, than in usual cartridge was 107,3 mm. its pointed, with the cylindrical ground part, bullet DS with a mass of 12,7, it developed in the stem with a length of 1290 mm speed to 1500 m/s, breaking through on the distance of 300 m the steel plate with a thickness of 15 mm at angle of 60°. It was possible to attain this because of the large length of stem in combination with the powerful powder charge of armor-piercing cartridge. Bullet had iron, plated by German silver shell and lead core (some sources they indicate that core it could be manufactured from carbide of tungsten).
The carried out tests attested to the fact that the gun can effectively be used against 70 % armaments of Wehrmacht. For increasing the rate of fire they equipped gun with 3- charge store. In connection with the high loads the period of the service of stem composed 500 shots (on other information only 200).
During October 1938 Polish army obtained the first 2000 guns. During August of their 1939 there was already by 3500, which composed approximately 45% of the planned 7610 pieces.
The superfluous measures of secrecy led to the fact that this powerful anti-tank weapon remained unmastered and not it was used properly during September 1939.
To Wehrmacht as the trophies were reached 886 guns. The guns received index PzB was in service into Vaffen SS and it was by them used in the war against THE USSR. Part PTR PzB transmitted to Italian and Hungarian armies…

Germans had also 7.92-mm AT PzB.39 :

And Chech rifle used by germans

PzB M.SS.41

In arsenal of German army besides the enumerated guns was Czechoslovak anti-tank gun Mss-41. specialists SS-Waffenakademie of Brno and the drawn Czech gunsmiths of firm Waffenwerke Brunn designed in 1940-1941 PTR W/7,92, of a small quantity that consisted under the index “Pz.B. M.SS.41” in the parts Of Waffen SS. Gun M.SS.41 it was intended for dealing with the light tanks and other lightly armored purposes, and also for the shooting at the embrasures of permanent emplacements

Certainly 7.92-mm bullet was too weak for fight with armoured techinc in 1941-42. Therefory soviet 14.5-mm PTRD/PTRS had a great advantage in comparision with germans AT rifles.
But germans made new kind of AT infantry gun:

…in base Pz.B.39 was developed the anti-tank grenade discharger Gz.B.39 for the shooting at the strongly armored purposes by cumulative grenade. With the creation of grenade discharger the stem of gun Pz.B.39 was shortened, and the grenade launcher was screwed to its muzzle part


This firle had a big shortage - distance of effective hiting was no more then 150 meters.

Cheers.

#8

It’s not correct , mate.
German also had some kinds of AT rifles.

I know Chevan, I have a topic of these in the German Military section, I was meaning tha the russian have more success wih his AT rifle ad used those the entire war, the germans discarded his 8mm rifles relatively quickly and used the 20 mm guns only in few ocations.

http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3357

Very good pics by the way, I really like the color M.SS.41 picture, is a very rare gun.

#9

OK .
I’m glad if helped.

#10

It helped i have to ad that picture to my ealier topic.

A prepared photo of russian infratryman throwing a RPG-40 grenade to a Ferdinad tank-hunter.

#11

The manner in which one could attain a side or rear shot with such rifles was to basically camouflage one’s position and let the enemy pass. This tactic was used in both rural and urban environments.

#12

Interesting photo.
In theory PRG-40 (in 1940 developed) had 760 gramms of trotyl , it was able to hit the 20-mm armour in contact with.
http://westfront.narod.ru/mus_htm/gren_rpg40.htm

But honestly speaking, i doubt that one RPG-40 was effective against Ferdinand.
In practice , soviet soldiers or partisans used the bond of three (or even five ) grenades RPG-40/41. They threw bond into the engine compartment or under the bottom of the tank. This was effective but very danger method of fight with the tanks.

P.S. Much more effective against armoured car was the cumulative-explosive RPG-43. It was able to hit 75-mm armour.
http://blackdigger1.chat.ru/granat/rpg43.htm

Cheers.

#13

Yeap, that was because the RPG-40 rely ONLY in the blast effect.

The RPG-43 however had a shaped charge warhead wich teorically could penetrate 70 mm of armor.

RPG-43.

The manner in which one could attain a side or rear shot with such rifles was to basically camouflage one’s position and let the enemy pass. This tactic was used in both rural and urban environments.

Teorically it could penetrate the Pz I and II from every angle far as 200 meters and the Pz II and IV from 100 metres in the sides.

#14

I know from anecdotes that those grenades were effective, but I wonder about the length of the fuse, because it seems to me like it might tip over when it hits. Have you heard anything about that? Could it have been specially weighted to cause it to stay vertical when it hit, or did it have a short fuse which caused it to generally explode by the time it landed?

#15

No, the stabilization sistem was a long canvas strip with some kind of cup in the base, if this not hit straight to the armor the shaped charge is almost useless.

rpg43a.jpg

rpg43c.jpg

#16

Do you know the timing of the fuse? I wondered if maybe it was shortened to increase the likely hood that the charge would explode at the time of impact.

#17

It was designed to detonate immediately on impact. Throwing must be done from trench only (because it can’t be thrown far due to 1200 grams weight and air stablizier which acts as brake, 15-20m are maximum). It was used in 1973 arab-israeli war too.

#18

It was not very successful weapon. Rather suicidal, I would say.
Even in urban environment, 20-25 metres distant to destroy tank is close to suicide.
Equal to American improvised anti-tank “stick bomb”, sock with piece of TNT + some grease to hold it to tank caterpillar…

I feel pity for either Russian or American boys which had to use these crude weapons.

Lancer44

#19

Especially when the armor had close, supporting infantry.

#20

Certainly this is not safe as the anti-tank gun or RPG-7, but i was much better then Molotov’s coctail or simple TNT .