Argentinian Military

This isn’t a Falklands thread. This is about the Argentine military is it not?

What does this mean?

Well…considering the losses of the sustain by the Britons I think they are.

Any losses sustained by the Argie military by the Brits were 23+ years ago!!! Surely these losses have long been made good.

I know the Argie forces have been used on Cyprus and in the Balkans in peacekeeper roles. (Have they done anything else?)

Are the Argie forces capable of operating independantly of UN, or similar, frameworks? In either Passive or Aggressive roles?

Are they only able to operate inside the sphere of infulence of the Argentine mainland. Or is Argentina able to project power?

This isn’t a question on the lines of could you take the Falklands, just what state your forces are in.

What is pay like in your forces?

Morale of troops?

Standard and quantity of equipment?

Workload?

Working conditions?

Are they all pro’s or do you still have conscripts going through?

Do you have any idea of the British Armed forces overall strength in 1982? A tiny proportion of the Army was involved, a bigger proportion of the RAF was involved, but not that much, and a significant proportion of the Navy was involved, but again, a lot stayed at home.

The British Amy in Germany (BAOR) had 3 full Divisions.

So to say the British sufferred losses that could not be easily replaced is a bit far off the mark.

Was he referring to the Brit losses?

If so he is so far off the mark it’s unreal. Argie losses were massive compared to Brit losses, but I digress.

Any chance of a confirmation of what you meant Panzerknacker?

Well…as you was talking about insurgents, and desapearing people I assume that you are talking about the Malvinas-Falkland conflict.

And I am sorry , but I am an aviation related guy, and dont have all the information you asked me. :roll:

The only that I can tell you is the army dont see any combat since, and as you say in employed in the UN peace enforcing Task. Actually I know that they are in Cyprus , Haiti and some country in the Balkans ( not sure wich one)

Thanks god the concription sistem was eliminated in 1994 by the president Menem and the actual Army/ Armada/ Air Force is an corps of entire professional staff.

In my opinion is a very good combat force , his mayor defect…The small size.

If so he is so far off the mark it’s unreal. Argie losses were massive compared to Brit losses, but I digress.

Probably yes if you talking about personal, the equipment losses are more equilibrated. Off course, the captured Argentine material was big.

It wasnt my intention to restart the 1982 topic.

you was talking about insurgents, and desapearing people I assume that you are talking about the Malvinas-Falkland conflict

To my knowledge nobody was disappeared on the Falklands so no i was not on about that little spat.

Are there any new planes in service with the Argie air force?

Are there any new planes in service with the Argie air force?

I have no information about these, I only know about the Fuerza Aerea Argentina = Argentine Air Force..

Riiigghhhttt. :shock:

OK then, moving swiftly on. :?

It appears that certain headbangers get there knickers in a twist when certain things are mentioned. No matter. I will continue with my pursuit for information. But will ensure that no insult is implied within the content.

If I want to insult someone on this site I will do it like this…

(name here), you’re a mentalist!

For example. :twisted:

Back to my questions. I will re ask a question which will be highly specific about the Argentine military.

The question will, unfortunatly, have a small reference to the Falklands and mention of previous activities carried out by the Argentine military that may upset some of the loons from down south but this is a. neccesary and b. only a reference not an invite for some kind of arguement.

Hopefully some of the more saner persona from down south will be able to answer the following…

As we know Argentina had a conscript army, however in the time of the Junta this army was also used extensivly in various counter insurgency operations and in various roles defending the borders of the country.

The military were also used in various darker roles such as the murdering of their fellow countrymen and women who dared to say that the Junta might not be a good government.

This has now been changed in the last few years. Conscripts are no longer pressed in to service. But are there any still serving their time?

I can’t remember exactly but the conscripts did either one or two years in the army, with a further 1 year or so on reserve just in case, so although the conscription has ceased what happened to those already serving?

What were the general opionions of the populace on conscription? Did they support it or did they oppose it? Did this change after the Falklands, when many conscripts lives were, essentially, wasted?

Obviously we know that conscripts were used in the Falklands but was this an exception or a rule? Were conscripts used for other war fighting roles such as COIN or border security?

Are the conscripts used for anything else? For example in Tunisia the Tunisian conscripts are used for labour, they carry out various construction projects such as the maintainence of varoious desert roads. The volunteer/professional side of the army handles any border security issues, etc.

Has the size of the military decreased drastically? Obviously to maintain the size of the force with out conscription would require massive recruitment drives bordering on conscription!!!

What of the young lads who aren’t going to be conscripted? We know Erwin missed the draught but he joined anyway, is this normal? Is it seen as correct that you join the army anyway and serve your country. Is there any stigma against those who do not choose to join?

What is life like in the Argentine forces? Again, Erwin has supplied us with various hints such as getting beaten but is this an exception or the rule? Has it changed much since the conscript side has been dropped?

I am aware of one or two incidents during the Falklands when the the regular professional troops used, shall we say, the more robust motivational techniques to get the conscripts to fight. Was this standard practice or just merely because they were at war and it was going slightly worse than expected?

Any sane responses greatfully appreciated.

If you are foaming at the mouth whilst typeing please don’t press the submit button. :smiley:

1000yds, on the constitutional side I’ve found this:

1 Conscription

conscription not enforced

Conscription is enshrined in art. 21 of the Argentine constitution which states: “Every Argentine citizen is obliged to bear arms in defence of his country and of this Constitution”. Yet, there has been no compulsory military service since 1994. However, in the event of armed conflict or a national emergency, conscription may be re-introduced. The 5 January 1995 Law on Voluntary Military Service (Law no. 24.429 Servicio Militar Voluntario) regulates military service. According to this law, military service is performed by volunteers. But, if insufficient volunteers present themselves for enlistment in the armed forces, art. 19 of Law 24.429 allows the government to introduce compulsory military service. Such decision must be approved by the National Congress. In that case 18-year-old men may be called up for up to a year’s military service under the terms set out by the previous Law 17.531 on Compulsory Military Service. [6] [8] [11]

recruitment

All men and women aged 18 to 24 may volunteer for performing military service. [3]

2 Conscientious objection

legal right

In case the government decides to introduce conscription, all conscripts have a right to conscientious objection. Art. 20 of Law 24.429 states that individuals who, for “profound religious, philosophical, or moral reasons,” are unable to perform their compulsory military service will be required to perform a substitute social service. This may be performed in such areas as public health and environmental projects, but in wartime it must consist of activities to do with civil protection and defence. [4] [6]

procedure and practice

How this right is exercised in practice is not known, as from 1995 onwards conscription has not been enforced.

It is neither clear whether those serving voluntarily are entitled to be released from the armed forces should they become COs.

3 Draft evasion and desertion

penalties

Deserters are tried by military courts, but the punishment for desertion is not known. When desertion is regarded as treason, the Code of Military Justice permits the death sentence.

practice

From 1987 on all military court verdicts have had to be reviewed by the civilian federal court of appeals. [9]

When the 1995 Law on Voluntary Military Service was passed, all deserters and draft evaders were amnestied. [3]

5 History
Up to 1995 there was compulsory military service. Young men were registered as conscripts when they were 17 and were called up to perform military service at 18. In the years before 1995 only 10 percent of conscripts actually served. Approximately 90 percent were exempted - either by lot, or because of physical disability or by paying a sum of money. [5]

President Menem decided to abolish compulsory military service on 13 June 1994 and the Law on Voluntary Military Service was passed in January 1995. This surprisingly swift achievement of abolition was partly due to the public backlash over the beating to death of Omar Carrasco, a young army recruit, on 6 March 1994. Although there had been many cases of conscripts suffering human rights violations, this time the family denounced the incident and received enormous public support over their demand for justice. Two conscripts, a sergeant and one lieutenant, accused to have participated in the death of Carrasco, are in jail but all claim they are not guilty. A trial is going on to judge those who tried to cover up the case, but sofar no military has been found guilty. [2] [10]

Before the 1995 law was passed there was no legal provision for conscientious objection. Refusal to perform military service was punishable by up to four years’ imprisonment. Several Jehovah’s Witnesses have served three to four year prison sentences in the Campo the Mayo, the largest military base in Argentine. In the past COs have also been sentenced to perform a year’s non-combatant service in the armed forces.

Ever since 1984, following the Falkland/Malvinas War, FOSMO (Frente Opositor al Servicio Militar Obligatorio - Front Opposing Compulsory Military Service) has campaigned both for the right to conscientious objection and for the abolition of compulsory military service. [1] [5] [7]

6 Annual statistics

The armed forces comprise 73,000 troops, which is about 0.21 percent of the population. There is a 375,000 strong reserve force. [12]

In the final years of conscription only some 16,000 conscripts served annually, that is 10 percent of the total number of conscripts. But when conscription was abolished, the military said they required 26,500 volunteers. In 1994 there were more than 200 COs. [3]

Sources

[1] Amnesty International 1991. Conscientious objection to military service. AI, London, UK. [2] Wandelaer, Juan de 1994. Letter to WRI-office 16 June 1994 [3] Wandelaer, Juan de 1994. Argentina: voluntary military service? Letter to Peace News, 30 August 1994. [4] Boletin Official No. 28.057, 10 January 1995. Ley No. 24.429 Servicio Militar Voluntario. [5] ROLC 1994. Informe del taller de formacion para la objecion de consciencia i encuentro latinoamericano de objecion de consciencia. Serpaj, Asuncion, Paraguay. [6] Toney, R.J. 1996. Military Service, Alternative Social Service, and Conscientious Objection in the Americas: A Brief Survey of Selected Countries. NISBCO, Washington DC, USA. [7] UN Commission on Human Rights, 1991. Report of the Secretary-General prepared pursuant to Commission resolution 1989/59. United Nations, Geneva. [8] UN Commission on Human Rights, 1997. The question of conscientious objection to military service, report of the Secretary-General prepared pursuant to Commission resolution 1995/83. United Nations, Geneva. [9] Amnesty International 1989. When The State Kills… The Death Penalty: A Human Rights Issue. AI, USA, New York. [10] US State Department 1995. Human rights practices for the year 1994. Country reports. USA, New York. [11] Wandelaer, Juan de 1997. Corrections to the draft report. Acci–n Directa No-violenta, Buenos Aires, Argentine. [12] Institute for Strategic Studies 1997. Military Balance 1997/98. ISS, London, UK.

http://www.wri-irg.org/co/rtba/argentina.htm

Quite interesting Cuts!!!

Couldn’t remember if it was one year or two in service.

Should have remembered really. Read somewhere there was uproar in the forces reference the descision not to extend the 1981 intakes service so they could go to the Falklands instead of the 82 intake.

I believe conscripts are supposed to turn up early in first January of their 18th year but some are still coming in during February. It takes all year pretty much to train them, so by April they are still pretty green. They only get trained on support weapons towards the end of their service, by the time of the war few of them could even carry out effective section attacks!!!

Anyone in ARGCON serve as a conscript? or know anyone that did?

hey!,it wasn’t conscription or what the fuck it is called,it is the army.you join to the army,you do bad,they kick you,you join to the army,you don’t like,you abandon.

I think you’ll find I have mentioned that you service was not forced upon you as a conscript earlier on.

What is life like in the Argetine army?

What time do you wake up? what do you do for PT?

Calm down Erwin. There’s nothing here to get worked up about.

I can give you my experience of life in the RAF. We wake up about ten and our Sergeants bring us tea and biscuits. Then its a slow ramble to work, dressed in what comes to hand. Elevenses at eleven, lunch 1130 till 1330. Then afternoon tea break 2-3 and finish at 4 and off to the Mess for a six course Dinner, before supper, when again the nice Sergeant will bring more teas and a scone. It is hell, but someone has to do it!

Note, this may vary between airforces, but not by much in my experience.

Agreed the RAF do tend to have it down pat!!!

This has to be a tissue of lies. No mention of Golf in it anywhere!

sorry :oops:

Do you not think that the British Army has also been similarly targeted by terrorists over the last 20+ years? We have had similar things happen to us.

Where has anything been written that anyone on this site has any support for this type of thing by or against anybody?

I said one day japs to 4 american japaneses and they kicked my arse with their fucking karate.

But you see the thing is Erwin, you didn’t did you?

Cleaning rifles,a lot of beds in the same place,taking showers in a community shower (for more than one person),trainment,special trainment (i told you a bit of the special),physical exercise (also sports),at the hour of walking you can walk more than 100km in one day,but that isn’t every day,eat shitty guisos (i don’t know the name in spanish),the worst food in the world must be our army’s food,we had the chernobyl chickens here to eat them,ARRRGHHH!!! (at least i never tried one of them because that is in the past).
too much physical,the officers and sub officers “dance” the people with lower grade (dance means that they make you do whatever they want,for example,sit down on that cactus or make me a coffee).

in fact,the argentine army is for men that like having a not nice life.

why you quoted that part of my post?,it hasn’t nothing with terrorism.

Erwin wrote:

the officers and sub officers “dance” the people with lower grade (dance means that they make you do whatever they want,for example,sit down on that cactus or make me a coffee).

I have heard about this sort of thing. I have also heard that the Argentine army officers have a tendency to be very aloof or arogant towards their juniors.

It is things like this, though, that I am trying to find out about. You may not think it, but this affects the Operational Effectiveness of an army. A disliked SNCO or officer can wreck the fighting spirit of a whole platoon or company. In the case of officers in your army they could wreck a whole regiment.

This is what I mean by a credible fighting force.