We could have a treaty, dividing it between us?;)[/quote]
yes,and what`s the next?,divide the patagonia?,only because one of the first populators are the welsh?.
:lol: ,we will always claim them,and we will get them.
bluffcove,you did the primary?,it`s motherfucker 
Erwin, I’m sure most forum members are in no doubt that terrs were indeed involved in murders and torturing, and that none of the members support the use of terrorism at all.
But don’t you think that the junta overstepped the mark on a few occasions and ‘removed’ people that were innocent ?
Erwin, I’m sure most forum members are in no doubt that terrs were indeed involved in murders and torturing, and that none of the members support the use of terrorism at all.
But don’t you think that the junta overstepped the mark on a few occasions and ‘removed’ people that were innocent ?[/quote]
cuts,its difficult to difference camouflaged terrorist between the people,but note that the soldiers tortured just terrorist,as you killed an inocent brazilian,who didnt do nothing.
the people said in those years that they wanted the army to the streets when the terrorism was,but then,the mindless youth joined the popular movements against police and armed forces,and the montoneros,the peronist of left.
im from that country,i know it more than nobody.
i hope that you dont suport the terrorism,the junta didnt remove innocents because they wanted,there is always a “margen de error”,humans aren`t perferct,and the soldiers like good soldiers,just obey the general.
well,just read my first post about the “dissapeareds” ,dont believe all the shits that the bbc and the tv put in your minds,thats low.
Regardless of whatever the low-lifes have done in the past, (and I know some of these terrs were bloodthirsty little b*stards,) two wrongs don’t make a right. It’s still illegal to torture people.
Wrong son, I wasn’t even in country, and I’ve a lot of independent witnesses that can corroborate that !
What made them join these organisations ?
Were there really that many youngsters that joined the terrs ?
That I cannot disagree with ! :lol:
I think if you read my last post you will see that I don’t. Furthermore I couldn’t do my job and support it either, eh ?
I’m afraid that that excuse went out of the window about fifty-six to sixty years ago.
Good soldiers are capable of independent thought, not merely following orders.
It is up to the individual soldier to decide what an illegal order is.
I’m no great fan of the present day BBC myself, but are all the stories from the various sources about the ‘disappeareds’ just a part of a great conspiracy ?
[quote=“Cuts”]
Regardless of whatever the low-lifes have done in the past, (and I know some of these terrs were bloodthirsty little b*stards,) two wrongs don’t make a right. It’s still illegal to torture people.
Wrong son, I wasn’t even in country, and I’ve a lot of independent witnesses that can corroborate that !
What made them join these organisations ?
Were there really that many youngsters that joined the terrs ?
That I cannot disagree with ! :lol:
I think if you read my last post you will see that I don’t. Furthermore I couldn’t do my job and support it either, eh ?
I’m afraid that that excuse went out of the window about fifty-six to sixty years ago.
Good soldiers are capable of independent thought, not merely following orders.
It is up to the individual soldier to decide what an illegal order is.
I’m no great fan of the present day BBC myself, but are all the stories from the various sources about the ‘disappeareds’ just a part of a great conspiracy ?[/quote]
tipical reply of the normal foreigner about national conflicts,cuts,i reply with my last post,and btw,soldiers are for obey,except if their leaders die,OBEY.
son?, :lol: ,the second time you posted i thought you were a kindergander boy
Meanwhile, back to the facts, several bizillion light years from Planet Malvinas, home of ‘Erwin Schätzer’…
im 21,i have a girlfriend,i have my house,im not baldy,im not fat,i dont have white hairs,im in my youth,i have enough muscles for fight,i have enough intelligenece for discuss threads i hear for first time in a languague that isnt my native languague,and with the populators of the public enemy of my country.
Im proud of my country,and my family is proud of me.
cuts,the terrorist was killed by one of your island beefs,i believe it was a scotland junk.
This is bullshit. At least in the Bundeswehr a soldier has the duty to refuse an illegal order and, if necessary, to arrest his superior.
It obviously depends on what order it is, e.g. if an officer orders a driver to exceed the speed limits the driver has to obey first and can file a complaint later, but if e.g. this officer orders him to shoot civilians and to act grossly against the rules of war, the soldier has, if necessary to arrest this officer and hand him over to the respective authorities.
The excuse of having just obeyed orders has been proven invalid since Nuremberg 1946.
Jan
[quote=“Walther”]
This is bullshit. At least in the Bundeswehr a soldier has the duty to refuse an illegal order and, if necessary, to arrest his superior.
It obviously depends on what order it is, e.g. if an officer orders a driver to exceed the speed limits the driver has to obey first and can file a complaint later, but if e.g. this officer orders him to shoot civilians and to act grossly against the rules of war, the soldier has, if necessary to arrest this officer and hand him over to the respective authorities.
The excuse of having just obeyed orders has been proven invalid since Nuremberg 1946.
Jan[/quote]
Jan,first,the word bullshit is out off this,please have modals if you want me to have them,we suppose to be adult people (at least,our age is adult).
yes,that in your army in the ww2,im talking of mine in the 60-80…
you don`t know nothing about this until you prove that.
I’m quoting the current Soldatengesetz (Soldier’s law), which is currently the military law in Germany:
§ 11
Gehorsam
(1)
Der Soldat muß seinen Vorgesetzten gehorchen. Er hat ihre Befehle nach besten Kräften vollständig, gewissenhaft und unverzüglich auszuführen. Ungehorsam liegt nicht vor, wenn ein Befehl nicht befolgt wird, der die Menschenwürde verletzt oder der nicht zu dienstlichen Zwecken erteilt worden ist; die irrige Annahme, es handele sich um einen solchen Befehl, befreit den Soldaten nur dann von der Verantwortung, wenn er den Irrtum nicht vermeiden konnte und ihm nach den ihm bekannten Umständen nicht zuzumuten war, sich mit Rechtsbehelfen gegen den Befehl zu wehren.
(2)
Ein Befehl darf nicht befolgt werden, wenn dadurch eine Straftat begangen würde. Befolgt der Untergebene den Befehl trotzdem, so trifft ihn eine Schuld nur, wenn er erkennt oder wenn es nach den ihm bekannten Umständen offensichtlich ist, daß dadurch eine Straftat begangen wird.
§11 No1:
“A soldier has to obey his superiors. He has to carry out orders given to him fully, conciously and immideately and to his best ability. It is not considered to be disobedience, if an order is disobeyed, which would impact human dignity *) or which has not been given officialy. If the soldier through error considers an order to be invalid, he will only be without responsibility, if he couldn’t avoid the error and it was according to the circumstances not possible to use legal means against the order.”
§11 No. 2
“An order has to be disobeyed if obedience would be a criminal act. If the soldier still obeys the order, he will only be considered guilty, if he recognises or if, concerning the circumstances known to him, it should be clear to him, that by obeying this order he will commit a crime.”
*) German constitution article 1:
The human dignity is untouchable.
In other articles the German soldier gets sworn in to obey the constitution, especially the articles dealing with human rights.
Since he has sworn to obey the constitution, he commitsa crime if he acts against the constitution.
Jan
If you drag someone out of their bed in the middle of the night then attachch electrodes to their genitals, they will tell you what you want to hear regardless of the truth, most people( including me) would.
The world veiw of the dirty war in Argentina is that it targeted dissenters as well as terrorists, in fact if everyone who was disapeared was a terrorist engaging in terrorist activites Argentina would have been in flames.
The Argentine Govenment ( military Junta) took the opportunity to deal with it’s political opponents in a robust way and made no deffinition between those distributing anti Junta pamphlets and thoses engaging in an armed strrugle.
If your( Erwin and Irish Duck) only resource for information is your own( pro govenment) media from the period , don’t forget that this was the same news resource that claimed that during the Falklands conflict Brirish forces where being defeated on all fronts as Menedez was signing the surrender.
Put your nationalism to one side for a moment and look out side the truth is out there.
It is now 2005 not 1810, the Falkland Islands aint comming back so just get over it and move on.
Regardless of whatever the low-lifes have done in the past, (and I know some of these terrs were bloodthirsty little b*stards,) two wrongs don’t make a right. It’s still illegal to torture people.
Wrong son, I wasn’t even in country, and I’ve a lot of independent witnesses that can corroborate that !
What made them join these organisations ?
Were there really that many youngsters that joined the terrs ?
That I cannot disagree with ! :lol:
I think if you read my last post you will see that I don’t. Furthermore I couldn’t do my job and support it either, eh ?
I’m afraid that that excuse went out of the window about fifty-six to sixty years ago.
Good soldiers are capable of independent thought, not merely following orders.
It is up to the individual soldier to decide what an illegal order is.
I’m no great fan of the present day BBC myself, but are all the stories from the various sources about the ‘disappeareds’ just a part of a great conspiracy ?[/quote]
tipical reply of the normal foreigner about national conflicts,[/quote]
I don’t understand what you’re getting at here, could you explain please ?
Don’t you have answers for any of my questions ?
You’ve been sadly misinformed Erwin, soldiers are as Walther rightly pointed out, required to obey only legal orders.
As to obeying until their leaders are dead, you may be confusing things with the SS oath of allegiance, which went something like this:
“I swear to you, Adolf Hitler, as Fuehrer and Reichs Chancellor, loyalty, and bravery. I vow to you, and to those you have named to command me, obedience unto death, so help me God.”
(loose translation)
Blind obedience will get the individual soldier a well deserved trip to The Hague to stand trial.
There are good reasons for giving the soldier the duty to refuse illegal orders, a perusal of the Nuremburg trials and those of the various combatants in FRY will reveal all.
Your point being ?
(By the way, the word you’re looking for is ‘kindergarten.’ It’s German.)
I’m mighty proud of you too Erwin.
Not one of mine.
Hmmmm. This is how the Soviets justified executing and working millions to death in GULAG - “if you want to make an omelette you have to break a few eggs”, “it doesn’t matter how many innocent people suffer so long as we get the guilty ones too” etc etc etc.
There is NO justification for torturing and pushing dissidents out of planes over the ocean EVER, even if they ARE terrorists, which most of them were not. There is such a thing as due process of law, courts and investigations which in a civilised society should be used in ALL cases, not shooting people out of hand or mass executions. The fact that you defend this kind of conduct is tragic. And the fact that you seem to believe a nasty, oppressive military junta over the rest of the world’s media and scholarly research is also pretty tragic, especially as LargeBrew says regarding the same sources of information claimed that the British were surrendering on the Falklands.
Bluffcove here it is your 3rd formal warning.
Check this:
http://www.ww2incolor.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=2563#2563
Do not post other members PM’s on the site. If you recieve a PM from a member that you feel is offensive please forward it to our current administrators/moderators:ww2admin, Gen. Sandworm ,FW-190 Pilot, South African Military and Dani. We will then discuss it with that person and take action from there.
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Why is fareast so racist against Americans?
Why are people racist against Muslims?
Why was George W Bush re-elected?
Why is there still racism against black people in America?
Why are people anti-semitic?
Why did Osama bring down the Twin Towers?
Why do Shiite Muslim extremists like to blow up stuff?
1.Because he is an ass
2.Because kerry has a big chin,and the republicans don’t want to vote him 
3.Weak people always try to invent deffects to other,the black people are people,and im starting to think they are better than the white…
4.Why are people anti-occidental?
5.Osama is drunk,and the Twin Towers were important for usa
6.Why nazis like to kill the people they think aren’t aryans?.
Why don’t stop the irak war?
Why don’t we try to make a better world instead of complaining?
1.hes stupid
2.thay have nothing better to do
3.i dont know
4.i am not talking about this
5.i would tell you if i knew what it means
6.because the idiot has nothing better to do and likes to ruin the lives of thousands of ppl damn him
7.thay are bored and have alot of time on there hands
As an american, i can tell you:
fareast is a moronic asian with a serious inferiority complex.
muslims bomb us.
George bush was reelected because john kerry is lame. anyway, we need to continue the war once we started it.
there is not that much racism against black people in america. since you don’t live here, i understand if you think you do.
americans are practically indoctrinated not to be racist from elementary school to high school. most american youth enjoy hip-hop and black culture.
while there are still incidents, they are few and rare. You have to understand, the african-american community is rather troublesome, they have a much higher crime, drug, and murder rate then any other communities. thats why the police don’t really like them.
I live in this country smart stuff, I happen to live in the state to the East of you by the way.
Racism is very alive wether you want to believe it or not, I have witnessed many acts of racism against my family in friends. Once when my family and I went to a store, that also happens to be in New York, Long Island, the owners refused to let us buy the selected products. I myself am not Black, but most of my family is.
Also, at my school, several fights have errupted beginning with someone calling my friends (Some who are black) a nigger. I have seen a lot of acts of racism in this country, not just those two, so do not even begin to tell me that it is dead. And if you still say it is dead, then you need a slap in the face to reality.
And Muslims don’t blow us up, extremeists do, It just happens to be most of them are Muslim. If the terrorists were Catholic, we wouldn’t call them Catholic terrorists now would we? Just because they are a different religion then most Americans, we have to seperate them, and seem that Americans in no way could be so cruel.
Stalingradk,i cannot be more agree with you.
True words,the fucking racism is still alive,you usually see it,specially in countries like usa and france,argentina is also a country who hosts lots of racism,we have to erradicate this.
The things is that there is always a dullard with intentions of try to feel “superior” to the others,most of time,those dullards do this,because they want to hide their notorious weakness,psychological problems,like the idiot of hitler obviously had!.
also agree about your words about muslims and catholics.
of course the racism exist,but we can try to help the victims of it,and make the other idiots to understand.
Luckily,there is a good progress,but there is a long way to follow,before the racism finishes.