Falklands Conflict

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#1361

Firefly,

I understand that the wishes of the islanders are important. But if they want to be british, so be british, but in british territory, not in Argentine territory. A lot of british historians and geologyst recognize the islands must to be part of Argentina.

If the islands return to Argentine hands, the islanders will have the freedom of choice what they want. If they want to stay living in Argentine Port, in Darwin or wherever they want, they can do it. If we look to the Argentine Constitution, we could recognize that the islanders are Argentinian citizens. The constitution says that all people who had born in Argentine territory is an Argentinian citizen. The same constitution says that the Malvinas, Georgias and Sandwich islands are Argentine territories.
If they stay in the islands, they would be respect their religion, their customs and habits, but they would have to accept that the flag over the islands would be the skyblue/white, not the blue/red.

I don’t find apropiate your question “WOULD ANY ARGENTINIAN ACTUALLY GO AND LIVE IN THE ISLANDS?”
I think there is not a british problem. All Argentine is free to live wherever he want. And, answering to your question, I know several argentinians who would like to live there. Most of them are soldiers who fought in the islands and got inloved of them.
I don’t know if I would live in the islands, but be ensure that I would visit them once a year minimun (I live more than 2000km from the islands).

The reason that Argentina claims the Georgias and Sandwich islands are because the archipelagos are a projection of the Andes range, named as the Antartandes. This is proved by several studios realized by geologysts. In regional agreements, all South Andes territories in the South Atlantic would be Argentine. All Sough Andes territories in the South Pacific would be Chilean.

In respect of your question about why Argentina doesn’t claim Chile, Uruguay or Bolivia. Argentina (United Provinces from the River Plate) was formed by the territories in the former VIRREINATO which accepted the Independence Declaration. Chile wasn’t accepted. Bolivia was not part of the River Plate’s Virreinato.

Argentina respect the living of the natives in all the territory. But it seems you don’t know the natives love Argentina, and defend the flag. They are part of us. And what’s more, it wasn’t an state here. The Argentine expansionism was nothing if we compare the British Empire expansionism in the two ages of Imperialism all over the world. You are the great politic-economic power thanks to all the recourses you had in all over the world, where the natives couldn’t defend themselves. Examples? China, Central America, Africa, India, Middle East.

Greetings from Argentina

#1362

I understand that the wishes of the islanders are important. But if they want to be british, so be british, but in british territory, not in Argentine territory. A lot of british historians and geologyst recognize the islands must to be part of Argentina

They’re on British territory now, the British flag will is currently flying over the Govenor’s residence (well, it might not be flying right now, since it’s the middle of the noght down there). It doesn’t matter what ocean shelf the Islands are on, it doesn’t matter what some historians or geologists think. The Falklands are British, 200 years of history says so, 99% of the population say so and the war in 1982 says so.

The Argentine expansionism was nothing if we compare the British Empire expansionism in the two ages of Imperialism all over the world. You are the great politic-economic power thanks to all the recourses you had in all over the world, where the natives couldn’t defend themselves. Examples? China, Central America, Africa, India, Middle East.

A lot of the people you’re listed would certainly argue that they could (and did) defend themselves. The Pathans, Afghans, Sikhs, Zulu and Fuzzy-Wuzzy all gave the British one hell of a fight for a start. Even the Gurkhas became part of the British Army because they fought so well we decided that making peace with them and allowing them to join our army was easier than fighting them.

#1363

Eagle, the above posts are the best posts I’ve actually seen from a South American on this site in quite a while. I am sorry I am too busy at the moment to give it and the reply the time it deserves.

However, Gaza was a little different, the Israellis attacked and claimed the land. The families have only been there, off the top of my head, maybe 40 years.

The Falklands on the other hand were settled by the British long before your country even became its own country.

The arguements you such as the islands that are part of the Andes range, if applied to other countries would rewrite the globe!!!

This is why they are not classed as evidendce of ownership by the UN.

You say thay you would honour the islanders rights, they would just have to fly an argentine flag.

During the invasion your country forced a language on to them, they forced them to drive on the wrong side of the road, and forced a number of other rules on to them such as seizing radios, weapons but that is quite standard.

Your invasion also left behind thousands of mines that Britsh soldiers have been clearing for the last 20 odd years, non of which was recorded as the Geneva convention required. Also several times during the war the Argentines used civialians as shields or at the very least left them in the path of danger.

You say you would honour the Islanders nothing you have done in the past, including Erwin and co saying they would ship them home, would convince them otherwise.

Also as I have said the Islanders are actually very independent. They have very little input from Britain, other than defence and that is your coutnry’s fault in the first place, their flag is a British one but with their own crest in the middle.

Would you allow this crest in the middle of your flag? As a special Falklands flag?

If people genuinly want to move to the Falklands then they could probably do it now. As for your countrymen making yearly sabaticals. One this would die off pretty quickly, and two the Islanders aren’t geared up for mass tourism.

Part of the beauty of the Falklands is how untouched it is. I have been there, and I wouldn’t dream of preventing other people from going, I just think it would damage the islands with plane loads of camera toting tourists turning up to record, in the first instance, their macho pride at winning a prize. Maybe later only the true nature and islands lovers would come, but at what price? Again I wouldn’t trust your government not to allow every argie that wanted to, to jump on a plane and visit the islands.

When did the original claim get put in by your country anyway?

I have a feeling you will never let this one lie, despite the wishes of the people on the island.

99% voted against joining your country. I suggest you let it lie, build the bridges that were destroyed in your invasion and build business relations. who knows in 10 years the vote may be 50-50 then you may stand a chance of claiming them. If you ever on in a position to argue this, I would suggest than continuously whining over the islands will just galvanise the islander into never giving in.

As for your scenario, I have thought about it. I direct you to look at the events in 1982. You took a part of our garden we sailed 8,000 miles and took it back.

That is however pointless. The Islanders views in this are and should be paramount. Your countries claims are not recognised otherwise you would have the Islands by now.

Rmember, also the bigger picture. If you ever get the Islands, against the wishes of the people or by invasion. That has set a precedent. To which other similar disputes could be solved.

Gibralter - wrt Spain and Britian.
Ceutes - wrt Spain and Morroco.

These are two that immediatly spring to mind, this could also affect things like Guantanamo Bay inCuba, Maybe even the Channel Islands although do my knowledge France has never claimed them.

So it is not only 2500 Islanders that are affected, there are thousands more.

This is not just Argentina - Britian- Falklands.

#1364

Erwin, put up the pictures of these new weapons.

They’re all bound to be Off the Shelf tat. the sort you see advertised in Defence monthly, etc. that get left in the Doctors waiting rooms cos they are so bonk!!!

Regards to Belgrano. The Argies got confused. They somehow believed that when you go to war you have a little “pitch” where the fighting takes place and everywhere else is safe.

The Maritime Exclusion Zone was for civvies. Any ship entering the area was liable to be attacked. Any argie civvies ship would be considered hostile and sunk, just like an Argie warship.

Argie warships on the other hand were fair game, where or whenever they were. We could have sunk one in New York harbour if we felt like it. This is what happens when you go to war.

The direction of travel and where the Belgrano was is completly irrelevant. She was a threat to the Royal Navy while she was floating.

HMS Conquer rectified this problem. End of.

Stop buying Tanks Erwin. If you want to take the Falklands again, invest in the training of elite mountain troops, some descent air support aircraft, and a nuclear attack sub.

#1365

we have elite trained mountain troops!,our doctrine is improving,the static defense.
we can have nukes,but i don’t think usa will allow us!

#1366

Yes by your definition Argentina is Spanish.

Also you did reply to my questions after I wrote this, so thank you.

#1367

Erwin - please change your signature. I’m not offended by it, but it’s slowing the pages down to an alarming amount.

Could you swap it for something that isn’t animated please?

#1368

but it is the uniqe banner.
ok,i will do

#1369

You dont like Irleand. :lol: :lol:

#1370

Eagle - I agree with 1000yard that your post is indeed the best reasoned of all your compatriots. A delight! However it doesnt explain how the Argentine lays claim to the other South Atlantic territories of: South Georgia, South Sandwich and South Shetland - These as far as Im aware have never recieved Spanish or indeed Argentine settlers (ommiting the scrap metal dealers in 82)

Back to the cut and thrust of the post…

If the Islands fall under Argentine Government, I doubt any of the British inhabitants will hang around. But equally no Argentine will remain in hte Islands for long either, The Islands are hard to make an economic success of and no one wants to be poor, especxially when miles from home. The Islands are to a large extent inhospitable. The New settlers would have no Mod Cons to assist their rehabilitation.

I know for a fact it is the intention of about half the Islands farmers to destroy their livestock and set peat fires ablaze prior to leaving their homes, should Argentine ever threaten to take the Islands from them. There would be a barren wasteland very costly to inhabit and impossible to farm!

Any argentinian that wants to up sticks and move to the Islands will be able to get free land I should imagine. Then there is the small matter of Leaving the south American continent behind and moving to a cluster of Islands that probably cannot support more than 3000 Inhabitants.

Trade in Wool and Squid is your best bet in order to make money, though you will have to build your own trade networks as I believe most Wool agents are based in New Zealand, Australia, South Africa, Italy and Norway. Those nations having close ties to the British will stand to lose more than they gain by jumping into bed with the Argentine Woollen industry.

The Squid fishing Jiggers are very lucrative and I suggest are the primary reason that the Argentine government has an interest in the region. The Season only runs for six months a year however and no fishing companies operate from the Islands, Local Island labour is used to cross deck the cargo from the jigger to the refrigerated vessels heading back to Korea. and the Pacific. Money is not easy to bring ashore working in the trade even though there is alot of it thta goes directly from fishing companies to the Flakland Isalnd government in licences. I Cannot see how you intend to tempt people to work in the Islands.

The Countryside (camp) is sparse and in many ways like the southern Edge of Tierra del Fuego, near Ushiaiaiaiai. However much of it is littered with minefields in what is known as the “sulky sulky toys from the pram” disperal during retreat pattern. This will make any attempts by foreigners at farming most interesting. I know for a fact of six unmarked minefields in the Fitzroy region and could walk their perimeters. Im also aware of several others surrounding the Ithsmus on the approach to Lafonia. They are unmarked because the people that work the land there know hteir locations and no body visits those areas unless they are shepherds or agricultural labourers. As an outsider Im sure most excursions away from the homesteads would be confusing if not dangerous.

It has taken the Falkland Islanders 200 years to get to grips with existing in that particular environment, many of them are aware of the luxuries in the wider world but have their entire family history there and consequently cannot think of liivng anywhere else. It is in their blood to be Falkland Islanders. There are no Argentinians that have Malvina blood. I honestly believe that without the family and cultural ancestral heirtage to bind you to the land. Anyone that arrived and wanted to settle there having had a life in a developed South American nation, would take two looks at the peat stack beside their corrugated Tin House, made of 2x4 and plasterboard, and decide that even if this place is “theirs” that they would rather be Argentinian than Malvinese. Home is where you roots lie and I cant imagine an Argentine man, sticking it out in the Islands away from his family and culture purely to flick the bird at the British Establishment, Its obstinacy taken to a ridiculous degree.

this is in the premise that a peaceful resolution is reached and the Falkland Islanders leave to return to Soton, Chile, or Tristan de Cunha. (Where many have family)

#1371

Argentine expansionsim, was won on the coat tails of the Roman Catholic Church, hardly your place to talk about “unopposable odds!”

#1372

As much as I love any perenially cold rainy place, Yes!

#1373

You dont like Irleand. :lol: :lol:[/quote]

:lol: rofl

#1374

and how is the place where you live?

#1375

chile sucks!

#1376

My comparative respect for the value of the posts made by Eagle can only grow! :roll:

#1377

don’t cry for me ArGentina!! :frowning: :frowning: :frowning:

#1378

If he’s in Wales, then cold, wet and miserable. That’s why the Infantry spend so much tine being miserable on SENTA. England would be gloriously hot and sunny if it wasn’t for the bad weather coming across from Wales and down from Scotland :wink:

#1379

what i have to say

#1380

well,would be,so,that means it isn’t glouriously hot and sunny,right?