Favorite Waffen SS division

More a case of what your guts do after eating it - you will frequently find them both bubbling and squeaking! About the only nice thing you can do with cabbage and potatoes though…

Yes, but there isn’t enough bandwidth on this site to cover it. :wink:

Colcannon ain’t bad, but maybe that’s the Irish in me.

Wonderful things can be done with lots of cabbage and anything else that can’t be identified in the final result, as evidenced by an Aussie dim sim http://www.upfromaustralia.com/aussiedimsim.html (yeah, it does look a bit like someone’s been castrated) and the holy grail: The Chiko Roll http://www.chiko.com.au/Products.asp?ID=1

For TG, bubble and squeak is a bit like hash browns with cabbage in it, but it’s one of those dishes (like hash or corned beef hash in the US) that can be made up from just about any previously cooked roast / mashed / boiled meat or vegetable combined and pan fried.

I tell you what, if you like I’ll start a thread in the off topic section called ‘ask student-scaley’ where you and other confused foreign chaps can ask me to explain any British related nuances, customs, habits etc. I’m sure the other Brits on the site will help out as well :slight_smile:

I don’t know if that’s a good idea.

About thirty years ago a Pom explained to me what a chip butty was, and I still haven’t got over the shock.

And that was only civilian stuff! :smiley:

Incidentally, this discussion reoccurs here periodically, though this one was slightly before my time:

http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?2487-Glorification-of-Nazism

My favourite SS unit has to be SS-Heimwehr Danzig!! I also like the SS Division Nord, and the ski battalion.
Seriously though, I see nothing intrinsically wrong in having a ‘favourite’ W-SS division. No worse than a favourite unit in any national army, or a favourite air force squadron. All will have something ‘chequered’ in their past, some more so than others. Conversely there will also be positive points, examples of courage and martial skill.
Interestingly, there was recently a documentary on UK television called ‘Nazi Collaborators’ which featured a part Jewish SS man (he had lied upon application) who said that the Waffen SS units were far too busy fighting to be involved in the holocaust. I think this serves to show things are rarely as black and white as they seem at first. It is easy for lay people to condemn the SS as murderers and all the other cliches, but surely those of us on this forum know better.

Oooh, I feel another one of my rants coming on…

I don’t mean to jump on your post, but anything remotely near a Nazi/waffen SS love-in gets me going.

I don’t dispute that there were occasions where prisoners were shot by Waffen-SS units, but then there were also times where SS men were not taken prisoner, as happened with the HJ division at Normandy and the LAH in the Ardennes.
Do these isolated events devalue the courage displayed by these men under fire - I submit not, although I know many would disagree.
I find the carpet bombing of German cities to be brutal, cruel and often unjustified by military necessity, however I do not dispute the bravery of the air crews, and I would not object to the idea of a ‘favourite’ squadron.
No worries about jumping on my post, what fun would it be if we all agreed?

True, but hating the untermensch wasn’t the RAF’s mission statement. And yes if we all agreed it would be jolly boring :smiley:

The US forces in the Ardennes refused to take LAH men prisoner in retalliation for the Malmedy incident. I’m not sure of the reason for the Canadians killing HJ troops, but it may well have been in revenge for the killing of prisoners also…though whether or not the HJ did kill Canadian prisoners I don’t know.

The RAF probably did not have a ‘racial’ issue with Germans, but some may have felt the people below were getting their just deserts, just as some SS men may have felt the ‘untermensch’ were getting theirs. Conversely, some RAF men were doubtless troubled if not appalled by their bombing of civilians, just as I am sure some SS men were unhappy with their tasks.

There is good and bad in all organisations. There were in the region of 1 million SS men of various branches and nationalities, to describe such a large group as simply criminals is far too simplistic. Some were criminals and some were truly heroes, whether you approve or not of their politics does not change that.

Attempts to establish a moral equivalency between the SS and Allied troops just don’t work for me. The official policy of the SS was that they were racially superior to many populations in Eastern Europe and therefore inhumane treatment of members of those populations was justified.

I don’t buy that, nor do I admire or respect people who held to those principles.

I would say that British troops considered themselves superior to Indians and Africans; French thought themselves superior to Algerians; and white US soldiers thought themselves above their Indian adversaries and even their black comrades in arms.
Were these episodes so far before the second world war that the very psyche of these societies had been fundamentally altered?
Racism existed beyond the Waffen SS, furthermore the presence of racism does not remove the presence of courage.
Were not confederate soldiers brave in the US civil war, even though their faction supported slavery?

Racism was never an official policy of the US government during WW II, nor was it used to justify murder and genocide. Sorry, but I can’t admire courage when combined with principles of racial superiority.

No, sorry its not too simplistic. Their politics were truly disgusting. They were criminals because they decided to join the SS, it’s the same as deciding to join the BNP over here or the KKK in the states all these groups have equally repugnant views and all weren’t too shy about broadcasting their policies.

And sorry to be a pedant but the South went to war over states’ rights, not all southerners supported slavery I doubt many of the rank & file ever had any slaves.

Firstly, if I was wrong about the opponants of the HJ division, my apologies.

Second; In the eyes of the Nazis the Jews and communists were responsible for all of Germany’s ills and deserved to be eliminated. Looking back we disapprove of these views, but they were sincerely held by the men at the time. I don’t see how that is any different from bombing an innocent civilian, who may not even be a Nazi, because you blame their country for the situation in which yours now finds itself.

Third, One joined the SS to belong to an elite, to be part of something special. It was to ‘be the best’ to coin a phrase. One did not join the SS to murder civilians, even if that was what one subsequently found oneself doing. For every SS man who was part of an Einsatzgruppe or a KZ guard there were others who fought for their country with courage and against overwhelming odds, right to the bitter end.

I think it is true to say that anyone who fights is brave, the virtue of his cause is not the measure of a man’s courage.

You were not. They fought against British and Canadian units in Normandy.

Thank you. I’m trying to make a pretty awkward case here, and I didn’t want to make myself look silly with a schoolboy error!
Kind regards,