hearts and minds

[Fuchs66]

Show me where it says in the Bible that Christains should kill Muslims.

Try looking when the Bible was written and when Islam began. I know enough about Christianity to know if you selectively quote the Bible you can get all sorts of wierd and wonderful and frightening results, the same is true for selectively quoting the Quran. I’m just pointing out the absurdity of your argument.

ps how about those straight answers?

[reiver]

@IRONMAN

So you see, the “unbelievers” and “disbelievers” in the Qran are Christians and Jews. In some verses the terms are used to describe Christiansd, in others to describe jews. The term “people of the book” is a reference to Christians.

Christians, Pagans, and Jews are all castigated as unbelievers, but the Koran’s main thrust is against Jews. Unbelievers in Muhammad as a prophet of God and in the Koran as God’s word, are depicted not only as infidels, but are reviled as vile liars and deceivers. The theme permeating the Koran is typified by the following verse:

[5.78] “Those of the children of Israel who disbelieved were cursed by the tongue of David and Jesus the son of Mary;… Evil is that which they did… Evil is that which their souls have sent before them, for God’s wrath is on them, and in the torment shall they dwell for aye. But had they believed in God and the Prophet, and what was revealed to him, they had not taken these for their patrons; but many of them are evildoers.”

In the Muslim religion, Christains and Jews are destined to hell, and they want to help us get there.

Does that mean that all Muslims want to do violence against the Christains and Jews. Ofcourse not. However, thier religion is still what it is. And …

As long as there are Muslims willing to act upon the words of the Qoran, there will be terrorists and chilren in Islam will be taught that the west is evil.

Ahhh! It’s starting so sink in now! tapping the 58 yr old on the side of his head with the tip of a pencil Let it in there dudey!

But I thought all the Pagans were gone before Islam came?
That’s what one of your previous posts claimed, after all.
You’ve shown nothing to indicate an instruction, in the Qur’an, to kill Christians.
Not one word.
Of course, if you actually had a Qur’an, and could check your quotes, rather than search frantically over the Internet for quotes to suit, it would be so much easier, wouldn’t it?
“Those of the children of Israel who disbelieved were cursed by the tongue of David and Jesus the son of Mary”
That would be Jews criticised for backsliding, not Christians, since Jesus is described as cursing them.
In the Bible, all sinners are destined for Hell, with Jesus as the only way to God, so what’s your point?
Before you start pontificating that Muslim terrorists are acting on the word of the Qur’an, I suggest you read it, not Google individual verses.
And have you ever actually been in a madrassah?
How do you know what Muslim children are taught?
You’ve read half a dozen verses from the Qur’an, and suddenly you’re an Imam?
Is this the " a guy I met in a bar told me" school of education?
Or the “Sky News Academy”?
Or is it your old favourite " the everybody knows university"?
As for Islam adopting an older, Pagan name for God, do you happen to know, without Googling, what Christians call God?
Easter is the Spring Fertility Festival of the Pagans, Christmas the Winter Feast, when Pagans prayed for the Sun to return to warm the Earth.
All " new" religions adapted the older names/feasts of the religions they were trying to supplant.
It made conversions easier.
Islam was no exception: it also adapted Pagan customs, but I’ll leave you to Google for them yourself: you could use the education.

Again, what’s your point?

And get that eye seen to Junior: that twitch is getting worse.

[Fuchs66]

You did. You have intentionally misquoted me with what you yourself said.
Your answer has been posted repeately. You gain nothing by acting like a dink and pretending that it has not been.

As far as I see you’ve been ducking and diving all over the shop, but if you have remained constant you wont mind giving me short answers to my questions it shouldn’t be too hard for someone of your caliber now should it?

[Fuchs66]

Oh please hurry up I’m bolloxed want to sack it as I have to get up early in the morning to jump out of aeroplanes again, just a couple of words to each question is all I want.

[Man_of_Stoat]

@Fuchs66

As far as I see you’ve been ducking and diving all over the shop, but if you have remained constant you wont mind giving me short answers to my questions it shouldn’t be too hard for someone of your caliber now should it?

But he’s small calibre, so is less reliable and has a curved magazine so can’t fire tracer and has to operate the hammer on an SMG due to his steep feed-ramp and is used in the assault so is an assult (sic) rifle except when used in defence when he’s a defensive rifle and carries out section fire at 600m with cannon and is spring operated :roll:

[Fuchs66]

But he’s small calibre, so is less reliable and has a curved magazine so can’t fire tracer and has to operate the hammer on an SMG due to his steep feed-ramp and is used in the assault so is an assult (sic) rifle except when used in defence when he’s a defensive rifle and carries out section fire at 600m with cannon and is spring operated

I’ve heard it’s all true :lol: :lol: :lol:

[system]

@2nd_of_foot

The Qoran teaches Muslims to be violent and kill Christians. It does, you’ve read the quotes from it.

No it does not. Not one of those quotes you use said anything about Christians.

Christians are called “unbelievers” and “disbelievers” in the Qoran. So are the Jews. This has been explained to you repeatedly. You’re thick.

@2nd_of_foot

As long as there are Muslims willing to act on the words of the Qoran, there will be terrorists. And that is true as well.

So only Muslims are terrorists? Red army faction, November 17, Baader-Meinhof, Red Brigades?

Did I say that only Muslims are terrorists? Another failed attempt to put words into my mouth. :lol:

@2nd_of_foot

Who the hell is Chris Tucker?

:roll:

@2nd_of_foot

Do you not know that in many Muslim schools in the Middle East the teachers outright state to the children that the west is evil and westerners are “unbelievers” and worship a man instead of God? Do you not know this really? It might help you to stop playing soldier so much, quit spending all of your time on the Net, and learn something about the world outside of your door.

Who told you that?

You are so unknowledgable as to ask?

@2nd_of_foot

Islam swore to destroy the Christians in the Qran before Christins went after them in the Crusades. Yup. That’s true. The Crusades did not take place until centuries after the Qoran was written. Even so, I don’t see how it matters.

So why did the Christians live happily in Jerusalem prior to the crusades and under the control of Muslims. Why is there a large Christian and Jewish population in Iraq?

Why are the terrorists we are fighting from the Middle East Muslims? Christians lived hapily beside Muslims in Jerusalem under control of the Muslims prior to the Crusades? WTF? Your in bad need of a good history book. And there is not a “large” Christian and jewish polulation in Iraq. Christains and jews are a very, very, very, small portion of the Iraqi people. :roll:

@2nd_of_foot

I hate to be the one to tell you this, but Muslims do not worship God. Their God is a pagan one. Muhammed did not change that. He is considered by Muslims to be the last prophet of “Allah”. So who is “Allah”? Your guess is as good as mine I suppose

Muslims do not worship the same God that Christians do.

This is excellent you have given me a good laugh:lol:. Muslims acknowledge Christ as a prophet so all the above must be wrong and your link said that as well. They also recognise all the prophets in the old testament as their religion is based on it, like Christianity it is related to Judaism. So the god of Jehovah is the is the same as Mohammad.

Who is Allah? It’s debatable. Allah is the name of the pagan God worshiped by Arabs prior to the foundation of Islam. You need to understand the many contradictions in the Qran.

@2nd_of_foot

What terrorism are you talking about?

http://www.rickross.com/groups/abortion.html

quote from my link.

Hill, a one-time Presbyterian minister, has said God led him to shoot Dr. John Britton, 69, and his driver, James Barrett, 74, as they arrived at a Pensacola abortion clinic in July 1994.

Oh, so you mean a couple of twisted sickos that represent .001% of the Christains in the world. You really think the insane are representative of Christians?

@2nd_of_foot

Now, if you are talking about the few wackos who use the Bible to support their acts of violence, I would say that they are off their rockers. There are always the fringers in every culture. However, those unbalanced persons cannot be compared to mass teaching of children and cultural foundation that Christians are evil and worthy of death, as Muslim children are taught, and Christins are not taught.

So it is ok for the bible to produce wackos but not the Koran?

Dudey, you’re jnot comprehending simple sentances. You just reiterated my own statemnt, then ask me the statement as a question and wonder why i have not answered it. :shock: Put down the spoon. Puch the cereal away from you.

@2nd_of_foot

So this is were you got all that crap from.

Nope. But I got some concurring facts there.

@2nd_of_foot

1. The Qoran does not state that Christins should be killed.

Does it say on any page that Christians must be killed?

Quite a few. I’ve quoted some of them for you. You are trying to play semantics and claim that the Qran does not way what it does to support your false contention. Your doing so does not change the meaning of the Qoran’s passages, at all. Semantics always fails. Remember that.

[Walther]

Ironman, I don’t care if I will be banned from here or not.

[16] YOU ARE FULL OF SHIT ! [/16]

I ask you again: How many Muslims do you know? How many Muslim countries have you visited?
Googling American right wing bible bashing sites proclaiming a new crusade doesn’t count as knowledge.

My knowledge about the topic comes from having been married to a Muslim woman from Sierra Leone, West Africa from 1996 until last January, having lived with her from 1994 until 2001.
During This time I met lots of West African and Arab Muslims from various countries. I also had back then plenty of Indonesian, Iranian and Turkish Muslim friends (BTW, within my circle of friends were also several Jews, Christian from all denominations and atheists as myself).
I met several Imams and had talks with them.

While I always found the Q’ran as well as the Bible too boring to read, there are several people in here who have read this book in full.

Jan

[2nd_of_foot]

We all should read this it is very good and basically disputes all ironman’s posts. :lol:

http://www.dalitstan.org/sol/qta.htm

Para 27 The Islamic religion teaches that Jesus Christ was a practicing Muslim. My question is: is this any less ridiculous than if Christians said Muhammad was a practicing Buddhist?

But if Christ is Muslim…….

[Walther]

From which southern baptist hole did you dig out this site?
:shock:

Jan

[Fuchs66]

OK given up not going to get a straight answer tonight, might look in to see if any words of wisdom have appeared in the morning, if I can be arsed. Night all

[PzKpfw_VI_Tiger]

[quote=“2nd of foot”]

As long as there are Muslims willing to act on the words of the Qoran, there will be terrorists. And that is true as well.

Not exactly, the Qu’ran doesn’t preach terrorism as a path to god. In fact, about 98 percent of all muslims aren’t radicals, but the 2 percent that are, are the terrorists. They believe too deeply in the Qu’ran and sort of bend the words of the holy book to entice other devout muslims to join them.

[2nd_of_foot]

@IRONMAN

@2nd of foot

The Qoran teaches Muslims to be violent and kill Christians. It does, you’ve read the quotes from it.

No it does not. Not one of those quotes you use said anything about Christians.

Christians are called “unbelievers” and “disbelievers” in the Qoran. So are the Jews. This has been explained to you repeatedly. You’re thick.

No they are not read your link

http://www.dalitstan.org/sol/qta.htm

@2nd_of_foot

As long as there are Muslims willing to act on the words of the Qoran, there will be terrorists. And that is true as well.

So only Muslims are terrorists? Red army faction, November 17, Baader-Meinhof, Red Brigades?

Did I say that only Muslims are terrorists?

As long as there are Muslims willing to act on the words of the Qoran, there will be terrorists.

Looks like it to me.

@2nd_of_foot

Who the hell is Chris Tucker?

:roll:

And that means what, can you not answer a queation?

@2nd_of_foot

Do you not know that in many Muslim schools in the Middle East the teachers outright state to the children that the west is evil and westerners are “unbelievers” and worship a man instead of God? Do you not know this really? It might help you to stop playing soldier so much, quit spending all of your time on the Net, and learn something about the world outside of your door.

Who told you that?

You are so unknowledgable as to ask?

Why am I unknowledgable, I have asked you were you you got this opinion from. Any chance of an answer rather that stupid comments?

@2nd_of_foot

Islam swore to destroy the Christians in the Qran before Christins went after them in the Crusades. Yup. That’s true. The Crusades did not take place until centuries after the Qoran was written. Even so, I don’t see how it matters.

So why did the Christians live happily in Jerusalem prior to the crusades and under the control of Muslims. Why is there a large Christian and Jewish population in Iraq?

Why are the terrorists we are fighting from the Middle East Muslims? Christians lived hapily beside Muslims in Jerusalem under control of the Muslims prior to the Crusades? WTF? Your in bad need of a good history book. And there is not a “large” Christian and jewish polulation in Iraq. Christains and jews are a very, very, very, small portion of the Iraqi people. :roll:

Look it up

http://www.centuryone.com/hstjrslm.html

Six years after Mohammed’s death, the Caliph Omar enters
Jerusalem and Jews are readmitted to Jerusalem

@2nd_of_foot

I hate to be the one to tell you this, but Muslims do not worship God. Their God is a pagan one. Muhammed did not change that. He is considered by Muslims to be the last prophet of “Allah”. So who is “Allah”? Your guess is as good as mine I suppose

Muslims do not worship the same God that Christians do.

This is excellent you have given me a good laugh:lol:. Muslims acknowledge Christ as a prophet so all the above must be wrong and your link said that as well. They also recognise all the prophets in the old testament as their religion is based on it, like Christianity it is related to Judaism. So the god of Jehovah is the is the same as Mohammad.

Who is Allah? It’s debatable. Allah is the name of the pagan God worshiped by Arabs prior to the foundation of Islam. You need to understand the many contradictions in the Qran.

Read your link it has it all there.

http://www.dalitstan.org/sol/qta.htm

@2nd_of_foot

What terrorism are you talking about?

http://www.rickross.com/groups/abortion.html

Quote from my link.

Hill, a one-time Presbyterian minister, has said God led him to shoot Dr. John Britton, 69, and his driver, James Barrett, 74, as they arrived at a Pensacola abortion clinic in July 1994.

Oh, so you mean a couple of twisted sickos that represent .001% of the Christains in the world. You really think the insane are representative of Christians?

But you are condemning Islam in the same way.

@2nd_of_foot

Now, if you are talking about the few wackos who use the Bible to support their acts of violence, I would say that they are off their rockers. There are always the fringers in every culture. However, those unbalanced persons cannot be compared to mass teaching of children and cultural foundation that Christians are evil and worthy of death, as Muslim children are taught, and Christins are not taught.

So it is ok for the bible to produce wackos but not the Koran?

Dudey, you’re jnot comprehending simple sentances. You just reiterated my own statemnt, then ask me the statement as a question and wonder why i have not answered it. :shock: Put down the spoon. Puch the cereal away from you.

Probably because you accept that the bible is the only true book and any who follow it can do as they like.

@2nd_of_foot

So this is were you got all that crap from.

Nope. But I got some concurring facts there.

If you read it you would see that your post on god and Allah are crap.

@2nd_of_foot

1. The Qoran does not state that Christins should be killed.

Does it say on any page that Christians must be killed?

Quite a few. I’ve quoted some of them for you. You are trying to play semantics and claim that the Qran does not way what it does to support your false contention. Your doing so does not change the meaning of the Qoran’s passages, at all. Semantics always fails. Remember that.

No not a single quote has said that Christian must be kill. It is your interpretation that said that but your link disproves your comments.

http://www.dalitstan.org/sol/qta.htm

So show me were you got the original quotes from?

[2nd_of_foot]

@Walther

From which southern baptist hole did you dig out this site?
:shock:

Jan

It is one of ironman’s and confirmation of his posts. :roll:

[2nd_of_foot]

[quote="“PzKpfw VI Tiger”"]

@2nd of foot

As long as there are Muslims willing to act on the words of the Qoran, there will be terrorists. And that is true as well.

Not exactly, the Qu’ran doesn’t preach terrorism as a path to god. In fact, about 98 percent of all muslims aren’t radicals, but the 2 percent that are, are the terrorists. They believe too deeply in the Qu’ran and sort of bend the words of the holy book to entice other devout muslims to join them.

Can you amend this please it is not my post but ironman’s.

[Tubbyboy]

@Tubbyboy

In answer to your questions:

1. You have consistently misquoted other members of this forum. You have also regularly selectively quoted from other sources on the internet. Your normal tactic is to leave out parts of the text that you don’t like.

2. You have accused site members of statements that others have made. On other occasions, you have posted text as your own that you have found on the internet. This is called plagiarism.

3. Shall we go back to the “Gurkhas used as cannon fodder” argument? How about the “Tracer rounds can’t be used in a Bren gun” dispute? I could go on…

4. The main example I will use is the time where you actually proved yourself wrong. Do you remember where you stated that the angle of fire that produced the longest range was 45 degrees? You then posted a table to prove it. This table clearly showed that 45 degrees was not the angle for optimum range. You completely ignored this fact and continued to spout your opinion.

Whenever I have tried to reason or debate with you in the past, you have ignored my posts or, if I am really lucky, responded with :roll:

THAT is why I now offer “blanket criticism” and I think I have just proved my claims.

Apologies for quoting myself but IRONMAN has not yet responded when he pleaded for reasoned debate!

[festamus]

@IRONMAN

Oh, so you mean a couple of twisted sickos that represent .001% of the Christains in the world. You really think the insane are representative of Christians?

Hit the nail on the head and shot your own argument in the foot.

Something you excel at. But of course, in racist-land, 0.001% of twisted sicko Christians are preferable to 0.001% of twisted sicko Muslims I take it?

[Tubbyboy]

@festamus

[quote=IRONMAN]Oh, so you mean a couple of twisted sickos that represent .001% of the Christains in the world. You really think the insane are representative of Christians?

Hit the nail on the head and shot your own argument in the foot.

Something you excel at. But of course, in racist-land, 0.001% of twisted sicko Christians are preferable to 0.001% of twisted sicko Muslims I take it?[/quote]

Fucking spot on Festamus. Hit the nail squarely on the head!

[system]

@Tubbyboy

[quote=festamus][quote=IRONMAN]Oh, so you mean a couple of twisted sickos that represent .001% of the Christains in the world. You really think the insane are representative of Christians?

Hit the nail on the head and shot your own argument in the foot.

Something you excel at. But of course, in racist-land, 0.001% of twisted sicko Christians are preferable to 0.001% of twisted sicko Muslims I take it?[/quote]

Fucking spot on Festamus. Hit the nail squarely on the head![/quote]

Excellent, leave IRONMAN in the dust for the slow bleed out, and we can all go for tea and Medals.

yet again he has been proved a FUCKING ARSE REEMING INBRED, LONELY PISS STAINED, DOG ROGERING (oops not any more) SEXUALLY ABUSED FORMER ALTARBOY.

(I cant prove any of that, but I dont need to “it is jsut a statement of fact” I dont need references, Im WRITING IN CAPITALS)

EDITED TO CORRECT FORUM CODES (Ihave no idea what they are or why the fact I write this at the end of my posts let me change them willynilly,)

[Tubbyboy]

@Bluffcove

[quote=Tubbyboy][quote=festamus][quote=IRONMAN]Oh, so you mean a couple of twisted sickos that represent .001% of the Christains in the world. You really think the insane are representative of Christians?

Hit the nail on the head and shot your own argument in the foot.

Something you excel at. But of course, in racist-land, 0.001% of twisted sicko Christians are preferable to 0.001% of twisted sicko Muslims I take it?[/quote]

Fucking spot on Festamus. Hit the nail squarely on the head![/quote]

Excellent, leave IRONMAN in the dust for the slow bleed out, and we can all go for tea and Medals.

yet again he has been proved a FUCKING ARSE REEMING INBRED, LONELY PISS STAINED, DOG ROGERING (oops not any more) SEXUALLY ABUSED FORMER ALTARBOY.[/quote]

You bastard, how do I clean Stella out of a keyboard?