hearts and minds

[system]

I have heritage in the Ban Clan (the Bane, Bayne) on my father’s side. Eye laddie. Piss on Amerrrrica and I’ll smite ye woon!

[BDL]

@IRONMAN

Now, the IRA does not get it’s money mostly from the US, but from panties-on-their-head liberals all across Britain. If they got money from the US, they’d have all of the tools in the wolrd to do their deeds. But alas, the IRA is a poor bunch of sots.

The IRA gets millions of dollars a year from NORAID, they get a lot of their weaponary from America and they get a lot of the technical expertise from people who have studied in America.

[system]

[quote=“BDL”]

@IRONMAN

Now, the IRA does not get it’s money mostly from the US, but from panties-on-their-head liberals all across Britain. If they got money from the US, they’d have all of the tools in the wolrd to do their deeds. But alas, the IRA is a poor bunch of sots.

The IRA gets millions of dollars a year from NORAID, they get a lot of their weaponary from America and they get a lot of the technical expertise from people who have studied in America.[/quote]

Well, if that’s true it’s unfortunate. However, that is in no way an implication that Americans in general are terrorists. Saying such would be woeful folly.

EDITED TO ADD:

I am sure that the IRA petitions as many people from anywhere they can for money, ya know? They’d probably take it from a Muslim terrorist if they’d give it.

[system]

Just saw a BBC report on TV 30 seconds ago which stated that the recent attacks on Britian were religiously motivated. :shock:

NO SHIOT??? Imagine that! Motivated by the Muslim religion? Please, say it isn’t so!

[reiver]

@PzKpfw_VI_Tiger

[quote=IRONMAN][quote=festamus][quote=IRONMAN]Oh, so you mean a couple of twisted sickos that represent .001% of the Christains in the world. You really think the insane are representative of Christians?

Hit the nail on the head and shot your own argument in the foot.

Something you excel at. But of course, in racist-land, 0.001% of twisted sicko Christians are preferable to 0.001% of twisted sicko Muslims I take it?[/quote]

The Bible does not say things like

“The infidels should be killed!”

or

“The unbelievers should be sent to hell!”

That kind of thing is abundant in the Qran. :shock:[/quote]

I’ll give you that. This thread is really heating up in the 24th page… :roll:[/quote]

Actually, PzKpfw VI Tiger, it does.
Try reading Fuchs66 post on page 21 of this thread.

http://www.ww2incolor.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=451&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=300

[reiver]

Perhaps the saddest thing about this thread is that Ironman has spent page after page doing exactly what the extremists do.
Twisting and perverting the words of the Qur’an to “prove” that it says Christians should be killed, which it doesn’t.
The Qur’an has been around for about 1300 years, and yet the phenomenon of suicide bombing has only come to pass in the last 15-20 years, and not by Muslim terrorists alone.
During most of that 1300 years, Muslims, Christians and Jews have lived in many parts of the world in amity and peace, as the pictures I posted earlier show.
Apart from the tiny radicialised minorities in all of these religions, they still do: in Europe, in America, in Egypt, in Bahrein, South America and even, despite Ironman’s protests, in Israel.
That said, all of these religions produce terrorists, whether they use religion as their excuse or not.
White supremacists use the Bible to justify their hate campaigns.
The IRA played on their Catholic background to gain community support.
Baader-Meinhoff were white middle-class with a Christian upbringing.
The Tamil Tigers are secular.
And let’s not forget the Irgun, or the Stern Gang either.
Whatever the excuse used, terrorism is a political weapon.
Radical Islamists (note I use the word Islamists, not Muslims) twist the words of the Qur’an to provide their “justification”.
Spewing out half-digested, and less-understood lumps of cut-and-paste rubbish on how “the Qur’an teaches Muslims to kill Christians” is just making that job a little easier.
One more time, the “unbelievers” who must be killed according to the Qur’an were the idolators and Pagans, not the Christians.
And a Bible quotation appropriate to Ironman :
“As a dog that returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.”
“Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? There is more hope of a fool than of him”
Proverbs 26:11&12

[reiver]

@IRONMAN

[quote=LargeBrew]Sorry Boneman you stated middle eastern if you meant Islamic then say so. Was John Walker Lindt a middle eastern or an American Taliban.

semantics, semantics, semantics.

Have you thought about posting on Mil.com you might find some like minded( troubled children) members, Oh I forgot they prefer members to have some military background before they spout off.

We’ve been talking about the Muslims, not those of the Middle East. Oh wow! Guess what! Muslims populate the Middle East! What a trip that is!

.[/quote]

And yet again Junior, you miss the point.
Most Arabs are Muslim.
Most Muslims aren’t Arabs (or Middle eastern)

[Tubbyboy]

IRONMAN,

You asked for a response, it would be polite for you to respond in kind. As usual you have decided that anything that doesn’t fit into your world view does not exist. How can you expect to debate when you ignore half (or more) of the responses?

[Cuts]

@Tubbyboy

IRONMAN,

You asked for a response, it would be polite for you to respond in kind. As usual you have decided that anything that doesn’t fit into your world view does not exist. How can you expect to debate when you ignore half (or more) of the responses?

Holy smoking guano batboy ! You know that answering a direct question has nothing to do with serious debate and discussion, otherwise complicated questions like these would have to be answered !

@Cuts

IRONMAN, which Islamic countries have you visited and how long did you spend in each country ?

@Cuts

IRONMAN, did you miss my last post ?

I asked which Islamic countries you have visited and how much time you spent in them.

Just a polite reminder of the question.

You’re a hatemonger ! Stop blathering anti-American shiot and get back to your Captain Whamo Puffy Pops kiddo !

[festamus]

@IRONMAN

[quote=BDL][quote=IRONMAN]
Now, the IRA does not get it’s money mostly from the US, but from panties-on-their-head liberals all across Britain. If they got money from the US, they’d have all of the tools in the wolrd to do their deeds. But alas, the IRA is a poor bunch of sots.

The IRA gets millions of dollars a year from NORAID, they get a lot of their weaponary from America and they get a lot of the technical expertise from people who have studied in America.[/quote]

Well, if that’s true it’s unfortunate. However, that is in no way an implication that Americans in general are terrorists. Saying such would be woeful folly.[/quote]

Whoa! Yet again! Nail. Head. Hit.

Yet you don’t see the double standard. How sad.

One of the largest benefactors of IRA (and offspring) murders are American citizens. White, Catholic Americans. But wait a minute!!! To say that Americans in general are terrorists would be “woeful folly”.

But when some terrorists are Muslim… that’s a damning indictment of how their religion tells them all to hate us in the West. :lol: :lol:

You really don’t see it, do you?

[Firefly]

@IRONMAN

[quote=Tubbyboy]IRONMAN,

You are just making yourself look like even more of an idiot than usual.

Try reading the words on the screen before spouting your usual rubbish.

You are fooling no-one except yourself and you were clearly delusional to start with.

Please try to reason like an adult without resorting to your usual tactics of misquotation, misattributation and stating opinion as fact. It would also help if you could admit to being wrong when someone posts incontrovertible facts that oppose your opinion.

I would rather debate with you than have you simply direct worthless blather at me. Anyone can do that, children do it all the time. So why don’t you try to have something to say about the subject instead of throwing a blanket criticism at me? You have offered no justification for your criticisms.

What have I misquoted?

What has been incorectly attibuted?

What have I stated as opinion which is not fact?

What incontrovertable facts prove that my “opinion” (facts?) are incorrect?

Woudn’t you rather have something to offer other than a blanket criticism? Surely you can substanciate these claims, right? Give it a shot.[/quote]

Are we saying here that the Man who never answers a question has the audacity to put questions to others here.

Where is your proof iron Man?

[Firefly]

@IRONMAN

[quote=Walther]BTW, the idolators mentioned in the Q’ran are believers of animist religions, which were verycommon in Arabia at Mohammed’s time. He explicitely excludes Jews and Christians from persecution as “People of the Book”.

Jan

I did not say that the Muslims consider Christians idolaters. I said they consider them to be “unbelievers,” “infidels”, and “people of the book”. Please, quote me correctly.

You are wrong about the “people of the book”. That is a reference for those who study the Bible. Ask a Muslim theologist.[/quote]

Can you please give the name of the Muslim theologist you consulted?

[Firefly]

@IRONMAN

[quote=Fuchs66]Answer both questions please and the follow on question:

So not all Muslims want to kill Christians, in your wisdom which Muslims want to kill Christians and which dont?

Your sentance was poorly structured. But I think I have already answered you several times. Read what is posted so you don’t, like an idiot, keep asking the same questions over, and over, and over, again.

@IRONMAN

OK so let me see if you have the courage to answer these questions:

1. Does the Qouran contan numerous passages which compel Muslims to kill non-Muslims? (hint: Yes, it does. You have read only a few)

2. Do Muslim extremists use the Qouran for inspiration?
   (hint: Oh yes, they do. They quote from it constantly.)

3. Is the Qouran going to go away? (hint: No.)

4. Therefore, does the Qouran inspire and promote Muslim extremism? (hint: Why ofcourse it does. Just as the Bible would if it had passages in it compelling Christians to kill Muslims, which it does not.)

Unless you answer those questions, all is blather. I find it difficult to believe that someone can argue this pont while attempting to disqualify what is so plainty factual. Why are you opposed to those simple questions?

There is nothing whatsoever false about the following statement:

As long as there are Muslims willing to act (extremists) on some of the words of the Qouran, there will be Muslim terrorists.

Now, for the dorkos here, you have failed to put words into my mouth. I have not said that all Muslims are evil or hate the west. What I said is that Muslim children are taught to dislike the west. They are taught that the west is full of idoletry. They are taught that western society is evil. Those things are true. It is begining to change, but it HAS NOT CHANGED for the most part. It’s perposterous to act like a dweeb and say these things are not so for the purpose of arguing. Almost nobody in this world shares your opinion that Muslims are taught that the west is their friend and that Christians are their brothers. YOU, are extremists. :lol:

[/quote]

Now hes taking the Piss aint he! I mean how could HE of all people write that?

[PzKpfw_VI_Tiger]

@Firefly

[quote=IRONMAN][quote=Walther]BTW, the idolators mentioned in the Q’ran are believers of animist religions, which were verycommon in Arabia at Mohammed’s time. He explicitely excludes Jews and Christians from persecution as “People of the Book”.

Jan

I did not say that the Muslims consider Christians idolaters. I said they consider them to be “unbelievers,” “infidels”, and “people of the book”. Please, quote me correctly.

You are wrong about the “people of the book”. That is a reference for those who study the Bible. Ask a Muslim theologist.[/quote]

Can you please give the name of the Muslim theologist you consulted?[/quote]

He’s not saying that did consult a theologist

[Firefly]

@IRONMAN

[quote=Fuchs66]No comment as yet to the bits from the Bible then, must I assume that you as a Christian follow these practises. Must be a bit tiring all that killing. Bit of an intolerent religion you follow there grandpa.

Show me where it says in the Bible that Christains should kill Muslims.
:lol:

Do you know nothing at all about Christianity?

Jesus said:
(brother refers to any man)

“You have heard that it has been written, “An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.”. But I say unto you, that should your brother smite you on your left cheek, offer to him your right as well.”

“Love your brother as you love yourself.”

“If you say that you love me and love not your brother, you are a liar, because to love me is to love your brother.”

“Forgive those who trespass against you.”[/quote]

You knob, everyone knows that the new testament was written before the Muslim emerged - Jeezus! So how could they be mentioned.

[Firefly]

@Walther

Ironman, I don’t care if I will be banned from here or not.

[16] YOU ARE FULL OF SHIT ! [/16]

I ask you again: How many Muslims do you know? How many Muslim countries have you visited?
Googling American right wing bible bashing sites proclaiming a new crusade doesn’t count as knowledge.

My knowledge about the topic comes from having been married to a Muslim woman from Sierra Leone, West Africa from 1996 until last January, having lived with her from 1994 until 2001.
During This time I met lots of West African and Arab Muslims from various countries. I also had back then plenty of Indonesian, Iranian and Turkish Muslim friends (BTW, within my circle of friends were also several Jews, Christian from all denominations and atheists as myself).
I met several Imams and had talks with them.

While I always found the Q’ran as well as the Bible too boring to read, there are several people in here who have read this book in full.

Jan

Well said man, and if you get a ban, Im with you, I am also fed up of his SHIT!

[PzKpfw_VI_Tiger]

@Firefly

[quote=Walther]Ironman, I don’t care if I will be banned from here or not.

[16] YOU ARE FULL OF SHIT ! [/16]

I ask you again: How many Muslims do you know? How many Muslim countries have you visited?
Googling American right wing bible bashing sites proclaiming a new crusade doesn’t count as knowledge.

My knowledge about the topic comes from having been married to a Muslim woman from Sierra Leone, West Africa from 1996 until last January, having lived with her from 1994 until 2001.
During This time I met lots of West African and Arab Muslims from various countries. I also had back then plenty of Indonesian, Iranian and Turkish Muslim friends (BTW, within my circle of friends were also several Jews, Christian from all denominations and atheists as myself).
I met several Imams and had talks with them.

While I always found the Q’ran as well as the Bible too boring to read, there are several people in here who have read this book in full.

Jan

Well said man, and if you get a ban, Im with you, I am also fed up of his SHIT![/quote]

OK guys, calm down a bit. There’s no need to go saying your full of shit. If your getting fed up just dont post on this thread anymore :?

[Firefly]

@PzKpfw_VI_Tiger

[quote=Firefly][quote=IRONMAN][quote=Walther]BTW, the idolators mentioned in the Q’ran are believers of animist religions, which were verycommon in Arabia at Mohammed’s time. He explicitely excludes Jews and Christians from persecution as “People of the Book”.

Jan

I did not say that the Muslims consider Christians idolaters. I said they consider them to be “unbelievers,” “infidels”, and “people of the book”. Please, quote me correctly.

You are wrong about the “people of the book”. That is a reference for those who study the Bible. Ask a Muslim theologist.[/quote]

Can you please give the name of the Muslim theologist you consulted?[/quote]

He’s not saying that did consult a theologist[/quote]

Thats fine, but who did he consult? Please dont start tryig to defend him until you have read every one of his posts. I urge you just to have a look at them all. Then come back here. Of course the alternative is to just disagree with him, or ask him for a straight answer or a reference.

[PzKpfw_VI_Tiger]

@Firefly

[quote=PzKpfw VI Tiger][quote=Firefly][quote=IRONMAN][quote=Walther]BTW, the idolators mentioned in the Q’ran are believers of animist religions, which were verycommon in Arabia at Mohammed’s time. He explicitely excludes Jews and Christians from persecution as “People of the Book”.

Jan

I did not say that the Muslims consider Christians idolaters. I said they consider them to be “unbelievers,” “infidels”, and “people of the book”. Please, quote me correctly.

You are wrong about the “people of the book”. That is a reference for those who study the Bible. Ask a Muslim theologist.[/quote]

Can you please give the name of the Muslim theologist you consulted?[/quote]

He’s not saying that did consult a theologist[/quote]

Thats fine, but who did he consult? Please dont start tryig to defend him until you have read every one of his posts. I urge you just to have a look at them all. Then come back here. Of course the alternative is to just disagree with him, or ask him for a straight answer or a reference.[/quote]

I will ask him for a refrence if any, but I have read a majority of Ironman’s posts Firefly.

[system]

On an ostensibly Military site, How much would WW2incolor suffer if it was abandoned by all of its military associated members, I think we know who we are, Anyone interested in suggesting a boycott?

IRONMAN feels it is unfair to call all white christian americans Klan members but feels it is ok to call all people that read teh Koran terrorists in training. - DOUBLE STANDARD

It is unfair to call all Christians terrorists because of the Abortion clinic bombers but not unfair to call Islam a breeding gournd for terrorism on the same count.

Israel is bombed by Muslims? The palestinians are Arabs, are European are Christian (coptic) are Muslim, One cannot equate Palestinian and arab nationalism to the teachings of the Koran, One is a political movement the other is a religion.

Antidisestablishmentariansim- Politics and religion are sepertate and should be as such. You are unaware of the wider context of the scenario because a large majority of the money in the American media is held by Jewish bankers! -

anyway who is for that boycott?