hearts and minds

Site Issues 2005 Archive Room
#141

Remember that incident in May when 16 security contractors were arrested by soldiers of the USMC for firing without reason at civilians and also opening fire on a Marine OP?
http://www.news24.com/News24/World/Iraq/0,,2-10-1460_1718477,00.html

The contractor now complain that the Marines just harrassed them because they earn $200,000 a year.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0613/dailyUpdate.html
But from this article:
“The contractors said they had fired shots in the air to get a stalled truck to move, but no one had shot at the tower. The captain didn’t believe the story, and detained all 16 men, as well as three Iraqis who were with them.”

Since when do you get a stalled truck moving by firing into the air? And where did the bullets land?
I think Iraq and the US forces would be better off without such cowboys.
I think the Marines have been rightly angry, because this irresponsible behaviour caused antipathy towards the Marines within the Iraqi population and this in turn endangers the lives of the Marines.
I wonder to whom those mercenaries are accountable?

Jan

#142

The Dinner Table

[5.82] Certainly you will find the most violent of people in enmity for those who believe (to be) the Jews and those who are polytheists, and you will certainly find the nearest in friendship to those who believe (to be) those who say: We are Christians; this is because there are priests and monks among them and because they do not behave proudly.

  • simplified and I hope I dont miss anything, taken from the Koran.

The most violent of the Believers will be the Jews for they are Polytheists. The closest friend amongst the believers (of Allah) are those that say “we are Christians”

The term, Believer is alot larger than might first appear, Im a simpleton repeating the words of my Dad, a believer is someone that follows the word of God, be it through the teachings of Ibrahim, mohammed or JC, therefore non believers are Godless people, but the term Allah refers to both the GOd of Judaism Christianity and Islam, Whereas JC refuted the Old testament in the Sermon on the mount nad set out new laws, so Did Mohammed with the Koran. Both are antecedents of Judaism, and it might be noticed that neither of the offspring of Judaism have stuck closely to the Torah or one another.

#143

Show me where it is written that they must kill all Christians.

#144

Good Lord. You Brit types can’t debate anything without turning it into a “see how bad the US is!” thing. Do you really want me to gather as much evidence of British fuc*-ups as I can and let’s have one of those 70 page tit-for-tat bit*hing sessions? We can if you like. You’re starting your anti-American trash again boys. I’ll give you a change to gather your sences from your spittle-trowing sugary-cereal-induced semi-comatic state of hytpocritical hate blather as you put the spoon down and wipe the milk from your chin.

Take a few moments now. Calm down. It will pass.

#145

True, the PMC’s in Iraq have broken new ground, Its the first time that such troops (mercenaries) have been used like this, consequently due to re-branding etc its impossible to find precedent for things like, legitimacy, and responsibility. Id be interested to continue this in the mercenaries, foreign troops thread.

at the moment IRONMAN is explaining that our ownly option is to declare a crusdae against all of Islam as all of Islam hates us :?

#146

:?: The Quoran is taught to every Muslim child in a Muslim school. Now, don’t fall for what???

You have allowed the liberalism of your country to infect your thinking.[/quote]

Yes. Yes I have allowed that.

I have lived with and count among my closest friends a person of the Muslim faith. The ‘liberalism’ of my country has infected my thinking to the point where I love my fellow human beings yadda yadda, whatever their race or religion so long as they are Good People.

I take people how I find them, not how I’m told to or how I expect to, or how murdering scum with bombs want me to for their own ends.

I am proud the ‘liberalism’ of my country allows this. I am proud that Muslims live in my country with all the freedoms, rights and oppurtunities that I have, which allow them to study at the same University as I, to live in the same flat as I, and to be at the same threat of terrorism as I. I am proud that the liberalism of my country has “infected” my thinking. I’m proud that the photos of myself and my parents at my graduation where taken by a coursemate called Mohammed.

Don’t like that? Think that’s “infected” thinking? Well bite my free thinking, Muslim loving arse. Your loss pal. It’s gonna be lonely in your little world… :lol:

edit for typos

#147

Walther, Bluffcode, have you gathered your sences? OK. Now, back to the discussion. Either show that the US dropped a defolient on the jungles hoping to kill people with it or STFU.

Now, about Muslims/Christians/war:

Again, the Quoran is taught to Muslim chilren every day. It teaches hate toward Christians and that they should be killed. What say you about that?

#148

Very good post Walther thank you.

#149

Should not take too long.

#150

and another perfect broadside from HMS Pram,

Im pissing off to the PMC thread to discuss something off topic, hopefully I wont find a certain Xenophobic, racist, parochial, ego centrist, ingrate
living their too.

Festamus - Thankyou so much for finding the words that have escaped me.
To any of the UK posters, shall we start a thread where we can actually do a better job of listing the failings of our country.

Can somene please show me why stating that the Bible has a couple of bloody-massacres in it is “anti-American” The world is not black and white!

Why did laurence of Arabia have such success with the Arabs if they all secretly hated him?

#151

I feel I may be about to lose my politeness medal.

How dare you ask someone else on this site to answer a yes or no question. You have consistently avoided answering any question posed to you!

You are a troll of the highest order and should be banned for some of the nationalistic claptrap that you come out with.

You have implied that all Muslims are, by definition, evil and anti-western.

By your own logic, how do you feel about Catholics? How about Protestants? If you look at the terrorist atrocities commited by both sides in Northern Ireland you will find Christians on both sides committing unmentionable acts. Does that mean that Christianity is inherently evil?

I am pretty fucking sure that you won’t respond to my questions so I know that I am wasting my breath.

When will you actually admit that you are wrong?

My predicted answer is NEVER!

#152

Yes. Yes I have allowed that.

I have lived with and count among my closest friends a person of the Muslim faith. The ‘liberalism’ of my country has infected my thinking to the point where I love my fellow human beings yadda yadda, whatever their race or religion so long as they are Good People.

I take people how I find them, not how I’m told to or how I expect to, or how murdering scum with bombs want me to for their own ends.

I am proud the ‘liberalism’ of my country allows this. I am proud that Muslims live in my country with all the freedoms, rights and oppurtunities that I have, which allow them to study at the same University as I, to live in the same flat as I, and to be at the same threat of terrorism as I. I am proud that the liberalism of my country has “infected” my thinking. I’m proud that the photos of myself and my parents at my graduation where taken by a coursemate called Mohammed.

Don’t like that? Think that’s “infected” thinking? Well bite my free thinking, Muslim loving arse. Your loss pal. It’s gonna be lonely in your little world… :lol:

edit for typos[/quote]

Festamus, I am not promoting that we should hate the Muslims any more than you. All I am saying is that they will never stop disliking the Christian west. Americans don’t hate people of other races any more than British do. Both of our nations have had sad and regrettable racial problems where we have treated people of a specific race indignantly. But that is the past for us.

All I am saying is that we must understad that as long as the muslim religion exist, there will be terrorists, because some of it’s followers will wish to act upon the words of the Qouran. That will nevewr change. But this does not mean that we cannot and are not winning the war on terrorism for the most part. Stopping all terrorism will be impossible. Bit we can still reduce it to a tiny fraction of itself and get Middle Eastern nations thinking that they must act to end terrorists coming from within their own nations as well. I’s already happening in Saudi Arabia. Why do you think that success cannot continue?

#153

You are putting in a factual comment in with a false, personal opinion.

Yes Muslim children are taught the Koran, they are not taught to hate.

#154

Did you really mean indignantly? What, we said “Oh my god there goes a darky, how dare he be here?”

I think you need to resit English, my boy Sonny Jim

EDITED to be really condescending and patronising.

#155

Here we go again :roll:

You do of course have the kill ratios of every unit that has ever fought in the history of warfare? I’ve never heard of a British unit recording kill ratios, they’re normally happy to know that they’re alive at the end of a battle and the enemy are dead.

Agent Orange was used to defoliate forests - and who lived in those forests? I can’t see where I’ve lied here? Want me to dig out the world famous picture of the 12 year old Vietnamese girl running down the road screaming after a napalm attack on her village?

You can not share my defeatist attitude all you like - I’m fighting the “War on Terror”, you’re not. If we were winning the war on terror, the British Army wouldn’t be sending massive reinforcements to Afghanistan. A large crowd of kids wouldn’t have been blown up by a suicide bomber today in Iraq and we’d know where Bin-Laden was[/quote]

So you are saying that agent orange was dusted on the forests for the purpose of killing civilians? Answer that question or STFU.

EDITED TO ADD:

Yes or no will do.[/quote]

No, just to kill their crops. Now, about the dropping liquid fire on civillian villages - was it right. A simple yes or no will do

#156

I feel I may be about to lose my politeness medal.

How dare you ask someone else on this site to answer a yes or no question. You have consistently avoided answering any question posed to you! [/quote]

HOW DARE THEY that defolients were dropped with the intention that they would kill civilians. Shame on them.

Come on now. Gather yourself. We can debate without that trash Tubbyboy.

No, I have not implied it. I have stated that their religion dictates it. And it does. Even the Quoran has numerous such passages in it. Are you going to debate that those passages do not exist now?

By my logic, Islam will always produce terrorists. Now you go on about Irelans. That’s a different issue. That has nothing to do with the subject of Islam, terrorists, and the war in Iraq. I knew you were going to bring that up. :roll: It has nothing to do with whether or not Christianity or even Islam is evil. It has to do with Muslims and terrorism.

You think for some reason that I am afraid to answer your slanted, unrelated question?

#157

loosing the will to live!

double post please delete

, sorry for breaking all the promises I made yesterday Sandworm, But the fucking Cunt, has got on a band wagon about racial harmony and being civil toward our fellow man and treating him with respect and understanding and it was…too fucking painful!

#158

All I am saying is that we must understad that as long as the muslim religion exist, there will be terrorists, because some of it’s followers (1) will wish to act upon the words of the Qouran. That will nevewr change. But this does not mean that we cannot and are not winning the war on terrorism for the most part. [b]Stopping all terrorism will be impossible/b. Bit we can still reduce it to a tiny fraction of itself and get Middle Eastern nations thinking that they must act (3)to end terrorists coming from within their own nations as well. I’s already happening in Saudi Arabia. Why do you think that success cannot continue?

(1) who saw the word “some” sneak in there?
(2) There is that defeatist attitude he didnt have two pages ago (oh wait Im playing with semantics when he said defeatist he meant…?)
(3) Thankfully we have external nations to notify the Middle east of the Problems posed by terrorists - I mean what would they do if we didnt point it out? It was only the other day I said, Benjamin, “look over there that bus has jsut fallen apart!” and he said “more to the point that tank accidentally ran over Mr Moolla’s house”

TROLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL.

Terrorism is a fact of life, it will not dissappear the war on terror will not defeat it, it will however put alot of US money into the middle east and make a couple of Texas cowboys rich. It will to a degree increase military and overseas spending and encourage a growth in the American economy. The Presence of the West in Iraq will as IRONMAN has pointed out encourage Muslims to resent the west, especially if they have such a sever lack of understnading and equate a religious movement - ISLAM, with a political movement - MUSLIM NATIONALISM

#159

[quote=“2nd_of_foot”]

You are putting in a factual comment in with a false, personal opinion.

Yes Muslim children are taught the Koran, they are not taught to hate.[/quote]

Are you having difficulty understanding something? Read this s l o w l y:

Muslim children are taught from the Qouran in the Middle East every day of their lives. They read the Quoran at home. The Qouran has numerous statements of hatred toward Christians and statements that they must be killed and eliminated form the earth.

Let that sink in. Take your time.

OK. Now, knowing this, do you really think that a religion based society such as the cultures of theMiddle East are going to ever stop producing terrorsts when they are taught from the Qouran? Also, do you really think that the Muslims will ever denounce their own holy book?

Ofcourse not. Now, I hope you can see that my statement that Muslims are taught to dislike the west every day is true and that it directly relates to what is going on and what will be going on in our world untill the end of humanity. The population of Islam is growing faster than the population og the Christian west. Do you see a big rosey picture somewhere?

#160

Here we go again :roll:

You do of course have the kill ratios of every unit that has ever fought in the history of warfare? I’ve never heard of a British unit recording kill ratios, they’re normally happy to know that they’re alive at the end of a battle and the enemy are dead.

Agent Orange was used to defoliate forests - and who lived in those forests? I can’t see where I’ve lied here? Want me to dig out the world famous picture of the 12 year old Vietnamese girl running down the road screaming after a napalm attack on her village?

You can not share my defeatist attitude all you like - I’m fighting the “War on Terror”, you’re not. If we were winning the war on terror, the British Army wouldn’t be sending massive reinforcements to Afghanistan. A large crowd of kids wouldn’t have been blown up by a suicide bomber today in Iraq and we’d know where Bin-Laden was[/quote]

So you are saying that agent orange was dusted on the forests for the purpose of killing civilians? Answer that question or STFU.

EDITED TO ADD:

Yes or no will do.[/quote]

No, just to kill their crops. Now, about the dropping liquid fire on civillian villages - was it right. A simple yes or no will do[/quote]

It was an attempt to kill enemies who in Vietnam disguised themselves as civilians and mingled. Yes it was a mistake. But then, Britian has made the same kind of mistake. However -

I am not going to get into a nationalistic bitching session with you young man. Do it for yourself if you feel compelled.