Is It Too Late For England

Nonsense.

What’s the alternative?

We shoot chickens with shotguns, like ducks? Reason I used to head shoot sitting ducks with a .22 - very unsportsmanlike, I know, but I was killing my food in the most efficient and humane way, not engaging in some ridiculous concept of sport where the aim was to get the bag limit in the least efficient way - is that at least that way I (a) made sure I killed it, which is more than a lot of people using shotguns on the wing do and (b) avoided crunching down on shot when eating it. One shot, one duck, one clean carcass, one meal, no unrecovered wounded animals flopping around like the real sporting hunters cause. If you think shooting sitting ducks is unsporting, would you be happier with hunters going into battery farms and shooting caged chickens?

Actually, no reason that shouldn’t happen. It’s the next step after game farms, for people with guns who can’t even hit anything on a game farm.

Where do you suggest I go to shoot a cow? We don’t have wild ones here. The farmers get real shitty when you shoot their cows. I know, because we used to have a farm and one thing that really pissed us off was humorists with guns shooting our cows through the udder. Big laugh, that. Also, I’ve killed (i.e. cut the throats and bled them) and dressed sheep carcasses but I’ve never tried a cow and I think it might be beyond me. Also a slight problem with eating all that meat, or freezing it. Personally, I like my beef hung for the ideal 42 days and then eaten.

We do have wild pigs here. I’ve sent quite a few to pig heaven. If you’d ever skinned and dressed one of them and seen the parasites, you’d know why I wouldn’t eat wild pig in a fit. The pig farmers are also a bit sensitive about people shooting their pigs, so that’s ruled out.

Same problem with sheep. And turkeys. And so on.

As for getting others to do the dirty work, ever been in abbatoir and seen how a killing line works? Very efficient, about as humane as can be managed. Not like morons with guns drilling animals again and again, and leaving wounded animals around in pain. Or, a level down from those hunters, check out the abbatoirs in the Middle East where they hock the cattle (slash the hamstring) first, then get stuck into them with their knives. Real charming.

I guarantee the wild animal has a much better chance then the cow being lead into the slaughter house and at least it lived free before it became someone’s dinner…but were way off topic now…:slight_smile:

If animals are going to be killed for food, it should be done as quickly and humanely as possible. Abbatoirs do that. Many so-called hunters don’t. Many so-called hunters don’t eat what they kill, either because they kill more than they can eat or they gut shoot them or otherwise damage the beast. Again, not what happens in abbatoirs.

And just for the record, not only do I eat poultry, beef, lamb and pork, I also eat fish and I fish.

I do, however, try to limit my vegetable intake, unless they’re fried. :smiley:

<Mod hat on>
Mike and Nick, try to keep it civil please. My finger is twitching towards the “lock thread” button right now, which would be a shame as the rest of it is pretty good.
</Mod hat on>

All arguments of sporting or not aside, there is a certain honesty to being able and prepared to kill and dress your own food. Brings you back to a simpler way of life, things today are far too… “processed”.

Oh, I went to the range again today. Took a friend from my pistol club, his wife and brother-in-law (who’s over from Perth). As it was a fun shoot I took an odd assortment of guns; Mosin Nagant m39, No 4 Mk1*, Tigr (civilian SVD), Type 56 and 84, G1, SVT-40, Beretta 92fs, Beretta PX4, Browning Buckmark, Ruger 10/22 and Dan Wesson .357. Another friend that came along took his Bernelli shotgun, SIG-550, AR-15 H-Bar, SIG-226 and Glock 17.

Needless to say, much ammo was spent, many bottles were blown up, steel chickens and Pigs fell in their droves and everyone finished the day with big grins on their faces…

(well everyone but me who has to clean the guns :D)

I think you should keep quiet about this.

If the Americans hear about it, Kiwiland will be full of American gun control refugees, just after you’ve bred out the Yankee genes from the WWII American invasion. :smiley:

Do you actually have any laws in NZ that limit gun ownership and use?

P.S. I might say that a long time ago I knew some Kiwi shearers who were into serious deer shooting in the wilder parts of NZ, long before anyone did the helicopter / game farm bullshit. They were serious bushmen and bloody good shots, over open sights at long ranges. Not the sort of arseholes with guns I’ve been moaning about in previous posts. If every hunter was a tenth as good as those blokes, I’d have a different attitude. I think I might have been about a tenth as good as those blokes, on a good windless day, with a tethered stationary deaf and blind animal with plugged nostrils about twenty five yards away.

Okay, it’s official.

People who support gun control aren’t nuts, but there’s something seriously wrong with their heads, which is a bit like being nuts but not an actual mental disease.

This is the considered professional view of a psychiatrist, who’d know about being nuts. She just happened to be the executive director of the Utah Gun Owners’ Alliance http://www.keepandbeararms.com/newsarchives/XcNewsPlus.asp?cmd=view&articleid=993 but that wouldn’t affect her professional, objective analysis of people who oppose her.

http://www.jpfo.org/filegen-n-z/ragingagainstselfdefense.htm

If you don’t want to trudge through the link, here’s what someone thinks it means.

Dr. Thompson unmasks the average anti-gun person to reveal a person terrified. Terrified of his own emotions. Terrified of her neighbors. Terrified that someone out there is actually able and willing to use self-defense. These terrors convert to rage, and that rage is aimed at … guns and gun owners.

These psychological insights empower liberty lovers to do two things. First, by revealing what motivates the hatred of guns and gun owners, we can destroy the credibility of the “gun control” lobby that fans that hate and fear. Second, we can approach anti-gun individuals with caring respect, and work with them one-on-one to help them see the world differently.

You won’t find this kind of analysis in JAMA or Psychology Today. Yet Dr. Thompson’s profound insights shift the whole debate. Instead of trying to defend the facts and truth against emotional outbursts, you can now ask a very different question: “What is it that terrifies you so much?”

Every person who wants to preserve the right to keep and bear arms – the right to effective self-defense – must read Dr. Thompson’s article. Print it out, sit down with a cup of coffee and marker, and grasp these concepts. Open up to a whole new way to understand our friends, relatives, and fellow Americans whom we love but who seem so irrational on the issue of firearms ownership.
http://www.jpfo.org/alerts/alert20001025.htm

I’ve gotta say, that shrink is right on the money with this

Dr. Thompson unmasks the average anti-gun person to reveal a person terrified. Terrified of his own emotions. Terrified of her neighbors. Terrified that someone out there is actually able and willing to use self-defense.

Yup, that’d be me, apart from not being a sheila. I’m so terrifed of guns that I got rid of my guns to avoid risks to my and other people’s kids and took my chances with the hordes of criminals just waiting to blow me and my family away with their illegal guns.

Or was I so terrified of people who’d have legal guns when I got rid of mine that I engaged in self-destructive behaviour by getting rid of my guns so that I could be terrified by the people who had legal guns, as well as the ones who had illegal guns?

Lucky we have shrinks who can help me resolve such paradoxes, probably with a prescription for five belts of M60 three times a day, and take two paracetamol and call me during office hours if the pain gets worse.

Does the gun control debate get any sillier than that supposed psychiatric opinion?

Are the Paracetamol for your shoulder or your wallet? :confused:

It’s hard too, really man…

I said:
I’ve been on many accidents where the car is not registered, the driver has no license and the car has no insurance.

You replied :
And the people are severally screwed, with jail-time following or at least probation…

Then I replied:
And that’s not counting the park car they usually run into…

I’ll tell you what Mike, since you’ve haven’t provided one iota of factual support for your:

-Typical blanket statement arguments

-Generalities that do not stand up to any scrutiny nor are supported by any real external sources

…either credible or uncredible in this thread, do tell. Describe the current scourge of “unregistered accident” mongers on American roads. How many die every year as a result? And when you get done evaluating the impact of this problem, then figure out how it actually correlates to the topic, because you’re way off it…

Then tell me how that at all relates to the proliferation of illegal weapons flowing to gangs and street thugs because of rather loose, and even unenforced, US gun laws which are routinely skirted…

Then you come up with this:
Again, throwing around silly flame bait? I haven’t had an accident in over ten years, at least where I was at fault…That puts me light years ahead of Dick Cheney…

The I said;
Silly flame bait??? What the heck you talking about there?? I’m talking about people gettin in a wreck without any insurance or registration, not sure what your talkin about.

Dude, those posts have been made and discussed already, why are you just spamming the thread?

And you’re actually offended by what I said about “The Tin Man,” Dick Cheney?

Orelly? But weren’t you running around calling “liberal” politicians “numbnuts?” Not to mention that many of the ones you mentioned don’t really have “nuts” since I’m pretty sure Pelosi and Boxer were born women. So you have an issue with me making fun of one of the most discredited, despised vice presidents since Spiro Agnew who has been instrumental in actually taking away the rights to privacy and has had a chilling effect of free speech in America since he’s the one most associated with the wheels coming off the FISA monitoring of domestic spying?

You ended up sayin:
No, actually you implied that I do this, trying to derail the thread with silly off topic rantings…

No Mike. I’m providing actual analogies of dangerous appliances, and you’re failing to grasp them for some reason and also ignoring key parts of my argument by cherrypicking only parts of my posts and presenting them out of context…

It’s getting old Mike, as is your starting agenda threads…

Ted Nugent fan?:smiley:

I am actually.

I put a couple of paracetamol tablets in my wallet, but it didn’t relieve the pain from my daughter’s ortho-bloody-dontist or for getting my daughter’s two useless cats steri-bloody-lised, so by a process of elimination the drugs must be for my shoulder. Which, oddly enough, feels no pain, unlike my shrinking wallet.

I reckon I could take a slug from an M60 with less pain that the bloody orthodontist and vet caused me. :smiley:

I’ll bite.

Who, or what, is Ted Nugent?

Always asked myself since I first heard the name in an ALF episode in the 80ies :wink: The name pops up every now and then in american pop culture.

Nick knows nothing, but I am the all knowing oracle. :wink:

Both men lament the high cost of insurance, if you can get it, for gun collections because they are a frequent target of burglars.
http://www.chron.com/content/chronicle/nation/guns/part3/gunside4.html

When Pennington refused the sale, Casey and Smith formulated a plan to steal Pennington’s gun collection and sell it for cash.
http://www.clarkprosecutor.org/html/death/US/casey770.htm

Forty handguns including tiny Derringer-like pocket pistols discovered stolen from an Oshawa house yesterday could have disappeared anytime within the past 12 days, says the man who spent a lifetime collecting the weapons.

Ken Foster, 67, said he arrived home from hospital yesterday to discover the back door of his Front St. home kicked in and the gun and ammunition cabinets upstairs broken open and emptied.

“I was shocked,” the pensioned gun collector told the Toronto Star in an interview at his home last night. “I’m never going to be able to replace them.” Foster said the weapons, which he collected over a 56-year period, were all legally purchased, registered, and stored safely.

Asked if he was worried about the damage the stolen guns could do on the street, Foster replied, “Well, yes.”

The incident is believed to be the biggest known theft of handguns in recent Ontario history.
http://jennifercw.blogspot.com/2006/02/why-ban-guns-altogether-when-you-can.html

In December 2003, thieves broke into the public housing apartment of long-time Toronto gun instructor and collector Mike Hargreaves and made off with more than 32 handguns, machine guns and rifles from a locked gun cabinet.

Gun collector Lionel Weese returned to his Consecon, Ont., home Dec. 8 to find that thieves had stolen 23 handguns, including five powerful .45-cal. pistols. Weese, a tow truck driver, had been lured out of the house by a false call; the guns were stolen in his 20-minute absence.

Also last year Toronto lawyer Arthur Brown said 17 guns stored in his Parliament St. office in downtown Toronto were stolen. The theft was discovered when firefighters responding to a fire alarm found two containers of ammunition on the floor; police say one of Brown’s guns has been recovered.

Although Durham police say Foster’s house doesn’t appear to have been targeted, police in Toronto say criminals are seeking out gun collectors and marking their houses and offices for later burglary.
It isn’t difficult to determine where gun collectors live, investigators say, noting the addresses of private gun clubs are public, and anyone purchasing ammunition must log their name and address in store ledgers that are often left open on the counter. People can also be followed home from gun shows and shooting ranges.

And correspondence from the chief firearms officer for Ontario to gun owners is stamped on the front in bold letters from the “CHIEF FIREARMS OFFICE” alerting anyone who sees the mail that the recipient may be a gun collector.
http://jennifercw.blogspot.com/2006/02/why-ban-guns-altogether-when-you-can.html

Here you go, Ol uncle Ted talking about the numnuts that nick supports

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_QjEL0uUgo

No comment on his political/second amendment views, but his view of history is funny as f***… As is his goatee!

Oh really…here are some question’s that you seem to ignore after you have posted ridiculous statements with nothing to back up what you claim. Talk about cherry picking.

#1) and some people with no real terror connections are banned from flying. But they can go buy as many guns as they want? Does that make any sense? Really? Do you have any facts to back this statement up?

#2) If you check they link above you will see all types of Ruger Mini 14’s , MY MINI 14GB is the 4th down, yours is the 6 or 7 down. Please tell me why mine should be banned and yours should not.

#3) If you have an example / facts of someone selling to this group please be sure to be specific.

#4) Why do you have your Ruger Mini 14 stored in another state?

#5) Oh really? look in your morning paper, how many private citizens are selling cars from home and how many are selling guns? Remember this was asked when you said it was easier to buy a gun than it is a car.

Good links and it does show how weapons of all types need to be stored better to try and make it harder for criminals to steal weapons. I fully support gun safes being mandatory for all gun owners
I do not believe that most homes are being targeted for the firearms content inside, my opinion is most guns are stumbled onto during a home break in from criminals looking for easy scores ( stereo’s, cameras, video’s etc.) and then the find unsecured weapons and if those weapons were in a gun safe, the majority of thugs would not be able to gain access.

I don’t think anyone is saying guns cannot and should not be stored safer and I think that weapons owners should be held responsible for guns under their control, what I’m saying is banning weapons will only keep them out of the hands of the law abiding citizen.

Heres ol Uncle Ted doing what he does second best…Turn your volume up…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDH1VuzaYBc

edited to add: While other rock stars were out doing drugs. overdosing and dying Ted was out enjoying his 2nd amendment right which gave him the chance to collect and shoot weapons and hunt. When he wasnt doing that he was bagging chicks…:wink:

Actually we do get the odd Australian gun control refugee :smiley: Which actually suits me better than all those hippie Europeans we got because of our “Nuclear Free” stance. But what would really attract the North Americans is our un-limited hunting season on all game mammels and the free hunting licences for most areas.

As for our laws yes we have some gun control but it is more owner control. Every firearms owner is licenced. Which involves a police interview, safety test, interview of your referees (and yes I’ve heard of referees giving a bad reference to nutters) and inspection of how and where you’re going to store the rifles.

After that you can buy as many sporting rifles/shotguns as you can afford. Sporting means manual repeaters and civilian semi-autos.

After that you can get additional endorsements to your licence depending on what special reason you have these all have additional security requirements and restrictions:

Pistols; need to be a member of a pistol club and attend at least tweleve shoots a year or it will be revoked. You are limited to competition pistols (barrel lenght must be more than 4 inches) and a maximum of 12 pistols. Pistols can only be shot on a dedicated pistol club range.

M.S.S.A; Or military style semi-automatic rifles, for collecting, competition shooting and pest destruction. May be used on private property (not city limits of course), ranges and public land (with hunting permit).

Collectors; pretty much everything under the sun that is a firearm (no explosives) that is not one of the other types. No limit on how many you can own but they must be stored in a non-operating condition (i.e. bolt removed) and must not be used with live ammo. Ever.

Our licences are re-newed every year. Sporting arms are non-restricted and the others which require an endorsement are restricted and registered to our licence.

NZ had a universal gun registration system until the 1980’s when it was shown to be of no value and grossly inaccurate and very expensive. So we switched to licencing the shooter not the rifle.

I would love it if we did it like that here, but then you would get the ACLU which is in favor of gun control and banning and they would start screaming like a stuck pig saying were taking the rights away from criminals… :slight_smile: