It wouldn’t even be “The Former Turkish Republic of Greece” but the “Former Turkish Province of Greece” Twisted Evil
The Ottoman empire was not a federation but a centralised state.
Jan
i think you are missing the point here;i wanted to write something utterly pointless so i can somehow protest the original post.
OK you’ve got me mad.
you really don’t need to get mad.like i said before,i meant no offence.i just think this little blue planet of ours doesn’t need more irrendetistic claims.
don´t worry tex,no offence is taken about this,no guys?.
you just did a just claim,i believe we can have a discussion of gentleman,or there will be casualties :evil: .
shhhhhhhhh! 
.
what name do the greeks want macedonia to have then?[/quote]
like ive said numerous times Erwin, the name doesnt bother me, its the fact they try to claim Greek history which pisses me off and 98% of Greeks off
i just dont see how Skopjans can claim Alexander was Skopjan when the Slavics hadnt even migrated to the Balkans in this point in history
well doesnt that just show how stupid you are?
what IS a real Greek? someone born in Greece? would you consider a Albanian born in Greece a Greek???
i was born from Greek parents, raised Greek, write/read/speak Greek, i have Greek blood running through my veins, i know most of Greece’s history back to front, isnt that ‘real’ enough for you
now go away, u have no idea on this topic and obviously dont want to learn about this issue, so why stay in this thread for???[/quote]
Sorry but I just noticed this.
Please hand in your Australian passport as soon as you can and return to greece.
An Albanian born and living all his life in Greece, would obviously be - GREEK.
I have plenty idea on this topic.
Here is my take on it. 3000 years ago there were these warring states that occupied several parts of what we now call greece.
Along comes a man called Alexander and conquers them all. As in most countries/lands on the fringe of civilisation, the Macedonians adopted all things Greek, even though the true Greek states called them uncivilised.
Greek states stumble along for a few years and along comes Rome. hey presto a few years later Greeks are Roman citizens, also Romanised is what is modern day yugoslavia.
Rome splits apart and hey presto Greeks are now byzantines.
Byzantine empire falls to the Turks and what do you know, greece is a turkish provence.
Then after what - 2800 years - in 1833 Greece is declared a country for the 1st time and given a Bavarian King to rule it.
Please dont try and tell me that after all that history, the very Greeks that lived in Athens are still there.
So what if only 10% of Macedonia is in the former territory of Macedonia, as walther says, its hills and rocks.
And lastly.
You came here with the express purpose of making this an issue. So instead of insulting people and trying to talk down to them and trying to convince us that Macedonia cant call themselves what ever they want contribute to some of the real threads here instead of this crappy little sideline.
All your crappy attitude to this issue from your first bad post has just put the decent people here against you.
Grrrrrrrrr, North Britain forever…
How dare the state of New Mexico call itself that, they are claiming mexican history.
Like only 10% of the population are real mexicans.
Dont believe me, well once you answer this post I will give you my definition and woe betide any of you who disagree.
Gooooooooood example mate!!!
Tsolias, maybe be it was a Tito’s plan (long ago). Are you feel threatened that FYROM could claim Greek territories? It’s far beyond imagination…
Actually Firefly, it could be debated whether greece was actually fully “Greek” 3000 years ago.
Sometime between 1100BC and 800BC a group called the Dorians moved into Greece having migrated from northern India/central Asia as one of the great Aryan (Indo-European) migrations leaving their mark all along their route (hence the “aryan” nature of much of Iran). The Dorians had invented mounted cavalry and ran rings around the then inhabitants who apparently still fought in a similar manner to that described in the Iliad - chariot infantry. The “Lapiths and Centaurs” frieze on the Parthenon (on the Metopes IIRC) is thought to be a mythologised version of this clash.
After this invasion the character of the Greek world changes towards what we would recognise as classical Greek culture.
I agree and if you look further back I posted about the Aryans. I was just attemptin to summarise 3000 years.
One could also argue that the Greeks owa a huge debt to the Minoans as the greek states seem to have been born out of the demise of Minoan culture.
let me make it clear for the LAST time, im not worried about the name but them claiming our history, ok, so no more mention of the name
come on dickhead, where have i EVER said Slavs arent as good as Greeks??? if u find any post where i have i apologise, if not, you truly are an idiot
of all thing it should be re-named the former republic of Byzantium
shhhhhhhhh! .
what name do the greeks want macedonia to have then?[/quote]
like ive said numerous times Erwin, the name doesnt bother me, its the fact they try to claim Greek history which pisses me off and 98% of Greeks off
i just dont see how Skopjans can claim Alexander was Skopjan when the Slavics hadnt even migrated to the Balkans in this point in history
well doesnt that just show how stupid you are?
what IS a real Greek? someone born in Greece? would you consider a Albanian born in Greece a Greek???
i was born from Greek parents, raised Greek, write/read/speak Greek, i have Greek blood running through my veins, i know most of Greece’s history back to front, isnt that ‘real’ enough for you
now go away, u have no idea on this topic and obviously dont want to learn about this issue, so why stay in this thread for???[/quote]
Along comes a man called Alexander and conquers them all. As in most countries/lands on the fringe of civilisation, the Macedonians adopted all things Greek, even though the true Greek states called them uncivilised.
[/quote]
Thrace was Greek, along the Black Sea coast known as Pontus was Greek, all these places in Asia Minor were Greek, but theres just a big gap in Macedon of ppl that werent Greek? is this historically AND geographically correct, i dont think so, Mecedonians WERE Greek and ALWAYS will be Greek
Tsolias, maybe be it was a Tito’s plan (long ago). Are you feel threatened that FYROM could claim Greek territories? It’s far beyond imagination…[/quote]
nothings impossible, cauz there having a good time claiming our history, so why couldnt they claim our land???
But then again where the Minoans talking Greek or the Greeks talked Minoan?
again, do American claim Mexican history though??? No
so stop making yourself look like an idiot
and i did say i dont care about the name, so that puts your comprehensions skills down to 0 i guess
No of course not (at leat at this point of history).
Its just difficult for Greek who maintained their history through all this invasions/occupations to have a neighbor like FYROM .
come on dickhead, where have i EVER said Slavs arent as good as Greeks??? if u find any post where i have i apologise, if not, you truly are an idiot
of all thing it should be re-named the former republic of Byzantium
shhhhhhhhh! .
what name do the greeks want macedonia to have then?[/quote]
like ive said numerous times Erwin, the name doesnt bother me, its the fact they try to claim Greek history which pisses me off and 98% of Greeks off
i just dont see how Skopjans can claim Alexander was Skopjan when the Slavics hadnt even migrated to the Balkans in this point in history
well doesnt that just show how stupid you are?
what IS a real Greek? someone born in Greece? would you consider a Albanian born in Greece a Greek???
i was born from Greek parents, raised Greek, write/read/speak Greek, i have Greek blood running through my veins, i know most of Greece’s history back to front, isnt that ‘real’ enough for you
now go away, u have no idea on this topic and obviously dont want to learn about this issue, so why stay in this thread for???[/quote]
Along comes a man called Alexander and conquers them all. As in most countries/lands on the fringe of civilisation, the Macedonians adopted all things Greek, even though the true Greek states called them uncivilised.
[/quote]
Thrace was Greek, along the Black Sea coast known as Pontus was Greek, all these places in Asia Minor were Greek, but theres just a big gap in Macedon of ppl that werent Greek? is this historically AND geographically correct, i dont think so, Mecedonians WERE Greek and ALWAYS will be Greek
Tsolias, maybe be it was a Tito’s plan (long ago). Are you feel threatened that FYROM could claim Greek territories? It’s far beyond imagination…[/quote]
nothings impossible, cauz there having a good time claiming our history, so why couldnt they claim our land???[/quote]
firefly,what is the meaning of aryan (in the no-nazi expression),do the slavs aren´t aryans?.
Minimalistix,If alexander was from macedonia then he was macedonian,if he was from greece,then he is greece.
an example,my grandparents and parents (german citizenship and blood too) are germans,i live in argentina,then,im not argentinian?..i guess that your nationality is the country that hosts,helps you,gives you a work,money,a place to live,and protects you,am i wrong?.
The blood and ancestry are not always the most important.
Minimalistix,i don´t want you to insult again anymember again!!!,or you will receive another warning
i knows this is out of place,but you will shut up and receive a warning,F**K OFF!,talk like a gentleman (or an educated boy at least).
tsolias,i think you are in better conditions to talk about this than minimalistix.
come on dickhead, where have i EVER said Slavs arent as good as Greeks??? if u find any post where i have i apologise, if not, you truly are an idiot
of all thing it should be re-named the former republic of Byzantium
shhhhhhhhh! .
what name do the greeks want macedonia to have then?[/quote]
like ive said numerous times Erwin, the name doesnt bother me, its the fact they try to claim Greek history which pisses me off and 98% of Greeks off
i just dont see how Skopjans can claim Alexander was Skopjan when the Slavics hadnt even migrated to the Balkans in this point in history
well doesnt that just show how stupid you are?
what IS a real Greek? someone born in Greece? would you consider a Albanian born in Greece a Greek???
i was born from Greek parents, raised Greek, write/read/speak Greek, i have Greek blood running through my veins, i know most of Greece’s history back to front, isnt that ‘real’ enough for you
now go away, u have no idea on this topic and obviously dont want to learn about this issue, so why stay in this thread for???[/quote]
Along comes a man called Alexander and conquers them all. As in most countries/lands on the fringe of civilisation, the Macedonians adopted all things Greek, even though the true Greek states called them uncivilised.
[/quote]
Thrace was Greek, along the Black Sea coast known as Pontus was Greek, all these places in Asia Minor were Greek, but theres just a big gap in Macedon of ppl that werent Greek? is this historically AND geographically correct, i dont think so, Mecedonians WERE Greek and ALWAYS will be Greek
Tsolias, maybe be it was a Tito’s plan (long ago). Are you feel threatened that FYROM could claim Greek territories? It’s far beyond imagination…[/quote]
nothings impossible, cauz there having a good time claiming our history, so why couldnt they claim our land???[/quote]
Minimalistix,If alexander was from macedonia then he was macedonian,if he was from greece,then he is greece.
Minimalistix,i don´t want you to insult again anymember again!!!,or you will receive another warning
i knows this is out of place,but you will shut up and receive a warning,F**K OFF!,talk like a gentleman (or an educated boy at least).
.[/quote]
what u dont understand Erwin is that each city/state had there own Kings (even 2 Kings) people form Athens were Athenians, people form Sparta were Spartans and people from Mecedon were Macedonians
they were all Greeks but referred to themselves from the city/state they were from, but when comon enemies like the Ottoman, Romans and especially the Persian tried to invade the city/states of Greece, the states would unite as one and call themselves Greeks
so you cant say Greeks are from Greece and Macedonians from Macedonia when Mecedonia WAS and ALWAYS will be a province of Greece, and Macedonian history will always remain with Greece
and Erwin i apologise for the swearing but they made assumptions by saying things i NEVER said and it really pissed me off
come on dickhead, where have i EVER said Slavs arent as good as Greeks??? if u find any post where i have i apologise, if not, you truly are an idiot[/quote]
:lol: :lol: :lol: Hold your horses Minimalistix!!!
Check my apologies at
http://www.ww2incolor.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=15214#15214
(And it was about what I supposed that Firefly wrote, not you!!! ).
On next time please read all posts if it’s possible.
G’day mate!
in that case i accept ur apology, its very hard reading every post when u have 2 pages dedicated to to you 
Well Minimalisdick if nothing else you have made me read up on a subject that I only knew a little about.
Far from convincing me that Macedonians want to steal Greek history, with your initial condescending attitude, your continued bullishness and to be honest your insulting behavior you have encouraged me to find out more.
Your premise is that Macedonia is attempting to hijack Greek History by claiming the Alexander wasnt Greek.
After doing some research I have come to the conclusion that there are actually 3 answers.
Answer 1.
Some of what you say is correct, Macedonian territory does cover both countries, therefore both countries have a say in this history. Both can claim Alexander and I don’t see anything wrong with this at all.
Answer 2
It could be argued that Greece is the one that is attempting to claim Alexander as Greek. I have discovered several passages from ancient Greek scholars that refer to the Macedonians as Barbarians and not true Greeks. One example is when they were banned from taking part in the Olympics was that they were not considered Greeks. It was Phillip of Macedon who united the Greek states by conquest, not the other way around.
Answer 3
Both versions are wrong.
Greece never existed before 1833. So you are both arguing about something, which is trivial. Alexander was therefore about as Greek as Aristotle i.e., yes they lived in the area known as Greece, but no they weren’t Greek in the modern sense.
There it is, how I see it. Thanks again, your one sided badgering has made me do some research. This is how the Macedonians see it:
http://faq.macedonia.org/history/
You have already provided your side, I thought that Id just balance it a bit.
Personally, I think its all about nothing myself and like most things can be argued both ways.
And finally, I say again, you have come here with the express purpose of starting this very topic. I have just looked at all your posts and none are about ww2.
If you want to talk about Greece, why don’t you provide some stuff in the Greek Mil ww2 bit. Tell us about the brave Greek forces and partisans. And take your agenda somewhere else.
How gracious of you to accept a MOD’s apology,
and how modest to beleive that these two pages are devoted to you, They are not, they are devoted to countering Dullardy, of which you are only a part. You are not THAT important, you are merely a symptom of the underlying theme in the forum at present, do not congratulate yourself on having managed two pages.
IRONMAN could eat you for breakfast! - if you arent he of course!
How gracious of you to accept a MOD’s apology,
and how modest to beleive that these two pages are devoted to you, They are not, they are devoted to countering Dullardy, of which you are only a part. You are not THAT important, you are merely a symptom of the underlying theme in the forum at present, do not congratulate yourself on having managed two pages.
IRONMAN could eat you for breakfast! - if you arent he of course![/quote]
well,words of the guy who always respect the mods,please bluffcove,give the example,and don`t try to teach,this mades you so “engreido”.
hope that you don`t take this as offense.
and Erwin i apologise for the swearing but they made assumptions by saying things i NEVER said and it really pissed me off
ok mate,apologize accepted ,excuse me too for my reaction at the insult,i should be an example.let`s continue debating like gentleman