Yes I read about it, they do not look like the real Spitfire though.
Henk
Depends on what the problem actually was. I suspect it will have been more than just reliability. If it did extent into problems with stall/surge and insufficient power, it probably isn’t going to be realistically possible to tweak it enough to be safe.
Well the Stormbirds ones have actually flew and they have delivered a model already to Messerschmit in Germany, so I guess it got a license with the new engines.
Yes, Firefly they did get one to fly with the new engines.
Henk
A profile of the fist operational Heinkel He-219, this fast night fighter destroyed 4 Avor Lancaster and 1 Handley-page Halifax in his first sortie with major Streib at the controls, but was destroyed in landing when the hidraulic flap control failed.
I’ve read that they were actually nearly all Halifaxes. There also seems to have been an element of overclaiming in night-fighter victories, as in other areas.
Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum
Is very plausible due the poorest aircraft recognition tipical of this missions, it was night after all.
And regarding the claims issue…teorically the night claims were more precise because the strict regulation that required to see the plane crash to claim a victory, there was no points for damage or “Herauschuss”, the guncams and the witnesses were very unreliable at night.
There is little doubt, the two seaters were actually used at night, some by the “Kommando Welter” and others by the NG 11, they scored few victories using his radar, most of them were use in the visual interceptation. A basic book about this planes in “german Jet Aces WW2” by John Weal from Osprey s publishing.
Helmut Lent
Oberst 
Helmut Lent was born on 13 June 1918 at Pyrehne in the Landsberg region of Warthe/Neumark. He joined the Luftwaffe on 1 April 1936 receiving the rank of Fahnenjunker.
On 1 July, Lent was posted to III./JG 132 based at Jüterbog-Damm. In early September 1938, Lent participated in armed patrols, flying Ar 68 fighters, in support of Germany’s occupation of the Sudetenland. On 1 November, III./JG 132 relocated to Fürstenwalde and was redesignated II./JG 141. Leutnant Lent was assigned to 6./JG 141. On 1 May 1939, II./JG 141 was redesignated I./ZG 76 and re-equipped with the Bf 110 Zerstörer twin-engine fighter. Lent participated in the attack on Poland. He destroyed several aircraft on the ground and a PZL P.24 fighter in the air on 3 September 1939 for his and I./ZG 76’s initial victory. However, on 12 September, following the destruction of an aircraft on the ground he was attacked by another fighter and his starboard engine was hit and put out of action. This necessitated a forced-landing, fortunately behind his own lines, in which he received minor injuries. On 29 September, I./ZG 76 was withdrawn to the Stuttgart area of Germany to provide Reichsverteidigung against France and Britain.
On 18 December 1939, Lent, now based at Jever, took part in the Battle of the German Bight shooting down three RAF Wellington twin-engine bombers attacking German naval vessels off Wilhelmshaven. Lent went on to achieve ace status during the Norwegian campaign, shooting down a Norwegian Gloster Gladiator biplane fighter for his fifth victory on 9 April 1940, while escorting paratroop carrying Ju 52 three-engine transport aircraft to Oslo. However, with his fuel running short, Lent was forced to land at Fornebu. In attempting to land, he came under fire from the ground defences, which caused his starboard engine to catch fire. With one engine of his Bf 110 C “M8 + DH” dead, Lent overshot on landing and crashed, fortunately without injury. I./ZG 76 relocated to Stavanger on 14 April. Lent was selected to operate with a Sonderstaffel, to be based at Trondheim to provide support for beleaguered German troops fighting in the Narvik area, from 18 May. On 27 May, Lent was escorting Ju 87 Stuka dive-bombers, attacking the radio masts at Bod?sj?en, when RAF Gladiator fighters attempted to intervene. Lent shot one down for his sixth victory.
His victim was RAF ace Flight Lieutenant Caesar Hull (6.249 confirmed, 2.5 probable and 2 damaged victories, killed in action 7 September 1940) of 263 Squadron, RAF. Hull crash-landed at his airfield, wounded in the head and knee. Lent recorded four victories during his time in Norway and was promoted to the rank of Oberleutnant on 1 July. In August 1940, Lent was transferred to the Nachtjagd. He was appointed Staffelkapitän of 6./NJG 1, based at Deelen in Holland, on 7 September 1940. Initially he could not come to terms with the different techniques required for night fighting. Eventually, after 24 missions without success, he sought an interview with Major Wolfgang Falck (8 victories, RK), the Kommodore of NJG 1, and requested a transfer to day fighters. Falck rejected the request. Lent continued to strive for success and finally, on the night of 11-12 May 1941, on his 35th mission, shot down two RAF Wellingtons. On 1 July 1941, Lent was appointed Staffelkapitän of 4./NJG 1 based at Leeuwarden in Holland. He had 12 victories to his credit: five by night and seven by day. On 30 August, Oberleutnant Lent was awarded the Ritterkreuz for seven victories recorded by day and a further 14 at night. He began a three-week period of leave from 9 September during which time he was married. Lent returned to operations on 7 October. By the end of the year his score had reached 20 night victories, including two of the new RAF Stirling four-engine bombers. Lent was appointed Gruppenkommandeur of II./NJG 2 on 1 November 1941. He received promotion to the rank of Hauptmann on 1 January 1942. He was awarded the Eichenlaub (Nr 98) on 6 June, after 34 night victories and eight by day. Throughout 1942, he steadily added to his victory tally. On 6 February 1942, he recorded his eighth, and last, victory by day when he shot down a RAF Hampden twin-engine bomber near Terschelling. On 1 October 1942, Lent was appointed Gruppenkommandeur of IV./NJG 1. He received promotion to the rank of Major on 1 January 1943. Lent achieved his 50th victory, a RAF Halifax four-engine bomber, on 18 January. He was the first night fighter to reach this mark. By July 1943, Lent had 65 kills to his credit including a RAF Mosquito twin-engine fighter-bomber, shot down on 20 April, the first recorded at night by the Luftwaffe. On 2 August, he added the Schwerten (Nr 32) to his Ritterkreuz for 65 night victories and eight day. Lent was appointed Kommodore of NJG 3, based at Stade, on 1 August 1943. He was wounded in combat with a Stirling on the night of 2/3 October. While he shot down the bomber he sustained a serious wound to his hand and superficial injuries to his face. His injuries kept him from combat duty until November. By the end of 1943, Lent had 75 night victories to his credit and 83 in total to be the Nachtjagd’s leading scorer. He received promotion to the rank of Oberstleutnant on 1 March. On the night of 22/23 March 1944, Lent downed three RAF Lancaster four-engine bombers using just 22 rounds of ammunition. He reached his 100th night victory on the night of 15-16 June when he downed three Lancasters in seven minutes using just 57 rounds of ammunition.
This brought the award of the Brillanten (Nr 15) on 31 July, making him the first night fighter pilot to be so recognized. On 5 October 1944, Lent was landing his Ju 88 G-6 (W.Nr. 751081) “D5 + AA” at Paderborn when an engine failed and he hit a power cable. He survived the crash, which killed his crew, but two days later succumbed to his injuries in Paderborn hospital. Lent received a posthumous promotion to the rank of Oberst.
Helmut Lent is credited with 110 victories. . His total includes 103 victories at night, including 59 four-engine bombers and one Mosquito.
Oh my god, 59 four-engine bombers this about 550-650 mens of crew.
Plus another 54 shoting aircraft is about 200-300 mens.
He shot down a whole infantry regiment.
Panzerknacker, i hear that germans counted each engine of shoting aircraft as the victory i.o. 4-engine bombers = 4 victories. Is it true?
This is not true…
About 900 men it would be infantry battalion not infantry regiment…
Cheers,
Lancer44
OFF TOPIC 
Are you sure mate?
May be you right about the german or allies infantry. But Soviet/russian battalion couldn’t be 900 mens.
From wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_organization#Units.2C_Formations_.26_Commands
Thats rater basic. However yes it does differ from country to country.
Untrue, a 4 engine aircraft was equal to 4 points , points valid to medal, an aircraft of one, two or 4 engines was always a victory.
Moreover at Night only count the airplanes that could be cofirmed by seeing the crash on the ground because the efectiveness of the guncameras at night were almost nil.
I have no the exact figure for british bombers but 4750 B-17 were shot down or crashed in WW2 that is some 47500 men wounded, killed or captured.
Profile of one operative Me-262 night fighter.
Kurt Welter, the enigmatic night ace.
Kurt Welter was born on 25 February 1916 at Köln-Lindenthal. He joined the still secret Luftwaffe on 1 October 1934 and trained as a pilot. Welter served as an instructor up to 10 August 1943 when he was transferred, with the rank of Oberfeldwebel, to Blindflugschule 10. On 2 September 1943, Welter was transferred to 5./JG 301. With this unit he performed Wilde Sau missions intercepting raiding Allied bombers in single-seat fighter aircraft by night. On the night of 22/23 September, Welter shot down two Allied four-engine bombers on what was his first Wilde Sau mission. He shot down a further two on his third mission on the night of 3/4 October. By the beginning of April, he had recorded 17 victories in only 15 missions! Welter was awarded the Deutsches Kreuz in Gold on 10 May. Leutnant Welter was transferred to 5./JG 300 on 7 July 1944. In July, he was to claim two USAAF B-17 [four-engined bombers](http://www.luftwaffe.cz/viermot.html) and three [P-51 fighters](http://www.luftwaffe.cz/mustang.html) shot down by day.
From 25 July 1944, Welter served with 1./NJG 10 performing Wilde Sau missions. He claimed four RAF Lancaster four-engine bombers shot down on the night of 29/30 August to record his 24th through 27th victories. Welter transferred to 10./JG 300 on 4 September 1944. 10./JG 300 was established to counter incursions by RAF Mosquito twin-engined bombers.
In September, Welter was to claim seven Mosquitos shot down, including one by ramming! It is thought that during his service with 1./NJG 10 and 10./JG 300, Welter recorded 12 victories in only 18 missions. Welter was awarded the Ritterkreuz on 18 October for 34 victories. On 2 November 1944, Welter was transferred to II./NJG 11. Here he was given command of a unit, set up on 11 November 1944, dedicated to the interception, by night, of RAF Mosquitos. On 28 January 1945, the unit, initially known as Sonderkommando Stamp after its founder and then Sonderkommando Welter, was redesignated 10./NJG 11. The unit was equipped with Me 262 jet fighters. Welter claimed 25 Mosquitos and two four-engined bombers shot down by night and two further Mosquitos by day flying the Me 262. Whilst Welter had tested a prototype Me 262 fitted with Neptun radar, the majority of Welter’s 20 plus night victories were achieved in standard radarless aircraft. Welter was awarded the Eichenlaub (Nr 769) on 9 March 1945 for 48 victories. Having survived the war, Welter was killed on 7 March 1949 at Leck in Schleswig-Holstein waiting at a level crossing, when logs falling from an improperly loaded passing train crushed his car.
Kurt Welter was credited with 63 victories in 93 missions. He recorded 56 victories at night, including 33 Mosquitos, but this late figure is not completely confirmed.
Martin Drewes.
Martin Drewes was born on October 20, 1918, in a small village near Hannover (northwestern Germany) called Lobmachtersen-bei-Braunschweig, a son of a local pharmacist.
As the 30’s began to end, Martin Drewes volunteered for the officer’s school of the German Army, the famous Wehrmacht, and at the last months of the Panzer course decided to transfer to the Luftwaffe; as this new armed force was in need of potential ‘fliegern’ (pilots), his request was accepted, and his new training period began during 1939-40. At this time, the most famous branches (and the most looked for by candidates) of the Luftwaffe were the “Jagd” (fighters) and “Sturzkampfluzeug” (dive bombers) Geschwadern (squadrons), being the Stuka the fastest way to get into the already well developed fray.
Drewes succeeded in getting posted to the Zerstörer (destroyer-a branch of the fighters based upon twin engined fighters, or the so-called ‘heavy fighters’) Geschwader upon graduation, and was transferred to ZG 76 “Haifish” (Shark) Wing, performing Kriegsmarine shipping patrols in the North Sea and some action in the Middle East. During this time Martin had already got two “Abschüsse” (victories), one of them a Spitfire over the North Sea, and the other a unfortunate Gloster Gladiator during his stay in the desert (1941 Iraqi uprising)
As the main weapon of this arm was the recently depreciated Bf-110C/D, the German High Command considered, upon the initiatives of a gifted Destroyer Arm officer, Wolfgang Falck, and some concerns on the annoying British night raids, which were then in a crescendo, to create a Nightfighter arm, by just transferring most of the Zerstörer units into this new kind of warfare. Initially, ZG 76 was transformed into NJG 3, and so Drewes saw himself merged into a new type of combat situation
As time passed by, his night victories increased, and he was transferred to NJG 1,within which he would stay up to the end of the war. During 1944 he was appointed Kommandeur (commander) of III./NJG 1 (third group of the first nightfighter wing), and that is the point we will focus now. At this time, Drewes had a Messerschmitt Bf-110G-4 coded G9+WD as his mount for night duties, and it was a totally personalized aircraft, as usual within the squadrons, as to improve chances against an ever varying and growing Allied air offensive
His aircraft had, just to increase morale of the ground personnel, his updated victory markings painted in the fin, where there were a yellow bordered black “25”,and below it the Ritterkreuz (Knight’s Cross); besides, there were many white victory bars, each one with a British roundel on its top and a black diagonal below, indicating night victories over British aircraft.
Besides, this aircraft’s “Schräge Musik” (Jazz Musik)-oblique cannons mounted in the cockpit of the fighter to shoot at the British bombers vulnerable belly-was in the then standard side-by-side position, but just behind the pilot’s seat, not in front of the “Bordschüetze”(Gunner), which was far more common at this period, according to a fax sent by Erich Vorholt, Drewes armourer at that time, which is still living in Germany.
The nose carried the factory standard four 7.9mm MG, and not the pair of 30mm cannon (Drewes said to me that he did not like the cannons, and instructed his ground crew to exchange them for the machine guns, because the cannons blasted huge pieces of the bomber-which could seriously damage his fighter, as the shooting distance was never beyond a mere 35 meters!!!).
As to have some interesting insight in another role of the Nachtjagdfliegern (nightfighting pilots), was talking to Drewes, a true gentleman, at his home when he told me that indeed G9+WD was a ex-nightfighter transformed into a dayfighter zerstörer for intercepting American bomber formations of B-17 and B-24 crossing the Reich in 1943-when escort fighters were rare sights over Germany, with its radar set removed for increased speed, and no belly 20mm twin cannons gun pod as well, for the same reason. However, he had another a/c for specific nightfighting, G9+MD, complete with the radar set, etc., so he had two available a/c, each for a specific role. Indeed, only pilots with less than 20 night victories would reinforce the day fighters struggle against the intruders of the Reich airspace, as the others were considered too valuable to be eventually spent in dayfighting with the ever growing menace, at the time, of the allied escort fighters.
One night, after detecting an unsuspecting Lancaster in the bomber stream, into which he mixed up thanks to Erich Handke (his excellent Bordfunker, or radar-operator, Ritterkreuzträger, or Knight’s Cross bearer, in German), he proceed to make the conventional Schräge Musik attack, right from below, spreading the these guns fire from the inboard left engine till the starboard one (a vital area, with fuel tanks half full, so with a lot of fuel vapours to cause a huge explosion if hit…), but in this case, the unaware bomber initiated a right turn, and the 2-3 second shot got itself concentrated on the BOMB BAY, STILL FULL OF ITS DEADLY CARGO!!! The bomber disintegrated, and took Drewes and its crew with it, through an incredible amount of debris, which dilacerated the Bf-110G-4 (G9+MD)…they all had to jump immediately for their lives from the plane’s blazing hulk!!! One schrapnel hit the gunner’s (Oberfeldwebel Petz) wristwatch, stopping it right at the moment of the explosion: 01:19hs…
After this incident,and the recuperation of he and his crew, Drewes then took old G9+WD back to its more appropriated affairs of nightfighting, and so the story goes…
Martin Drewes finish the war with a grand total of 52 victories, consisting of a Spitfire, a Gladiator,7 day bombers (B-17 and B-24), and 43 British night bombers, most of them the latest Bomber Command weapon, Lancasters.
He recived the Knight Cross with oakleaves.
sources:
http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Fea1/001-100/Fea016_Martin-Drewes_Borges/fea016.htm
http://www.luftwaffe39-45.historia.nom.br/ases/drewes.htm
http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/drewesmb_1.htm
http://www.pilotenbunker.de/Nachtjaeger/Luftwaffe/Drewes_Martin/drewes.htm
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By the way Drewes still is alive and well in Brazil, he wrote a book called “Sombras da noite” (Night Shadows in portuguese).
Is available in spanish and german also, dont know about the english version.
The Schräge Musik in He-219 (MK 108)
By the way…Schräge Musik ( wich means something like deviated , dirty or depravated music) was the name applied to Doktor Goebbels to all the african root music like the jazz and blues, wich were banned in Germany.
My first post here, I thought I might see some new info on NJG in this thread…What A Joke…
is there not a thread where members can post their political views? after several pages of Politics etc…the thread starts to come back to the NJG…
I noticed the same thing on the Hans Rudel thread…
Is there not a moderator here that can put a stop to this and keep a thread on track?
Looks like this site Mirrors the WWII Aircraft.net site. Way off topic. And then members here picking on some member there that has a Board name that does not suit him…Sad, Sad, Sad…
On the other hand there is alot to see here when threads stay on track, the Bios written by members on Welter and Drews were very well done.
Welter having little written about him, was especially nice to see.
I wonder if friend Erich Brown would have anything to add to the Welter peice?
Kevin