Although transfers between the Allgemeine and Waffen-SS were commonplace.[/quote]
commonplace in select units.
you study the holocaust? by watching schindler’s list and the pianist? the ss was a very large organization with different branches. i’ve already made myself clear enough.
All of whom should have been executed at the end of the war.
Allied and Soviets killed SS soldiers and officers at the and of the war ,not killed only one who escapa in neitral countries during the ww2.
There was far more than one SS scum who got to neutral countries at the end of the war, unfortunately the Allies never killed anywhere near all of them.
There was far more than one SS scum who got to neutral countries at the end of the war, unfortunately the Allies never killed anywhere near all of them.[/quote]
you obviously don’t understand the organization of the SS. their were elements that were in charge of the horrors(ie. gestapo, Sd estazgruppen) and their were regular/elite soldiers that were in charge of the fighting. (the waffen ss).
the waffen ss was made of a lot of german army personnel and later on many luftwaffe replacements.
read my post again.
I’m sure there’s a lot of civvilians in Poland and the former USSR who would love to be able to talk about the SS, except they were executed out of hand by Himmler’s scum. The SS had no redeeming features, no matter what branch they were. There were Nazi scum who deserved slow, lingering deaths for what they did.
I’m sure there’s a lot of civvilians in Poland and the former USSR who would love to be able to talk about the SS, except they were executed out of hand by Himmler’s scum. The SS had no redeeming features, no matter what branch they were. There were Nazi scum who deserved slow, lingering deaths for what they did.[/quote]
actually, the panzer divisions of the waffen ss are famous for bravery, efficiency, and stamina in battle. they fought in the greatest battles of ww2, often as the spearhead element.
the majority of waffen ss units have no war crimes record. many men were not even members of the nazi party. many were conscripts.
no offense, but now your just being ignorant, and full of predudice after indoctrination.
im not talking about the gestapo/sd, those organizations were hideous.
The SS were Hitlers “Chosen” and “elite” in an army and a naion so indoctrinated by the personality of one man making the jump to SS, puts you apart from the Kreigsmarine, Luftwaffe and Wehrmacht.
The SS were seperate and independent of the military structure of the nation primarily because of the close ties they had to the Nazi Party. Accuse me of ignorance if necessary but the Idlation of the Nazi Party and its offshoots is a misunderstanding of the tennants of Nazism. Nothing about the party is resepctable, Impressive maybe, remarkable maybe, exemplary maybe, but at no level can the acts of the Party or its perpetrators be deemed - respectable.
for most of the war, not really all that elite or chosen. more like an army for top officials. herman goering also had his luftwaffe army.
in the beginning, the first year of the war, yes. later on, no.
the armed ss relaxed most “racial requirments” there were poles,spanariards, czechs, laviations, russians, ukrainians, danes, swedish, norwegians, rumanians, british, and pretty much all different types of men from europe. himmler’s “untermenchen” B.S didn’t seem to matter anymore.
if you talk to ww2 researchers, there are no preference for equipment for the waffen ss over regular army units. the armed ss were supplied through heer channels. in fact, GD, HG panzer division, and panzer lehr were considered more special.
this does not have that much to do with nazism. by 1943, only morons, SA fanatics would believe in nazi B.S.
Most men, even in the waffen ss, didn’t fight for the fuhrer or for nazism, they fought to survive and hopefully stop the conquest of germany.
the image of a communist europe was a major threat to them. life, for the average german, had been good and happy in the 30s.
soldiers knew that the treachery of politicians threw their country in this mess.
tens of thousands of men, conscripted into the Heer, found themselves in the waffen SS with no choice.
If there were so many of them they could always down tools!
especially if as you claim they didnt buy the Nazi B.S. and were surely aware of the trains heading east and the final solution coming into play.
Soldiers are private citizens and if they merely fought to defend themselves and their country then why did they need to drag the Jews into the fray?
Im aware that the Communist threat was real and of the armies that fought their way West to escape the Russian advances. Still doesnt explain why the SS aren’t hideous scum.
bloff, there were 750,000 soldiers of the armed ss. the final solution used about 50,.000 personnel from the totenkopft. many units, with no concentration camp elements, had not heard of this. himmler, explictly tried to keep the concentration camp elements contained in certain units to hide the evidence.
there were rumors, of course, but what can one do>>??! in such a regime. most germans felt that it was impossible that the jews were being murdered and thought it was a load of bs.
not just waffen ss soldiers heard rumors. wermarcht, maybe even luftwaffe soldiers heard abou this. so wtf are the blokes to do? attack a government camp in risk of high treason??? where are the camps?/]
german propoganda showed the camps to be nice, productive places in newsreels to the soldiers. and the soldiers believed it. who can fathom such a thing??
what, so a forcibly transferred wermarcht officer/nco and a conscript “dragged” the jews into this mess?/
read osprey’s men at arms waffen ss 1-38. it documents the war crimes that 10 units have record of. For the majority of the waffen-ss divisions, committing crimes was not a policy of the norm. men were court martialed in most divisions.
its the concentration camp divisions like totenkopf and anti-terriorist units like the 36th ss that condoned this kind of conduct. they blackened the waffen-ss when the majority were brave citizens defending their country/or trying to survive.
Yet another person who joins the forum for his own ageda.
I wrote this on the SS Thread, perhaps where all this belongs, but i will leave it up to a MOD to worry about that.
On 17 Aug 1938 Hitler wrote:
‘The SS Verfuegungstruppe is neither a part of the Wehrmacht nor a part of the police. It is a standing armed unit exclusively at my disposal.’
So we can definitely see here that the SS was not part of the Army. He also goes on to say the following relating to SS mobilization:
“In that case it comes completely under military laws and regulations, but remains a unit of the NSDAP politically.”
Politically then, the Party always retains control of the SS. Im sure there is no disputing this.
Leading on from this the SS were political soldiers, an extract from their recruiting pamphlet states:“If you answer the call of the Waffen SS and volunteer to join the ranks of the great Front of SS Divisions, you will belong to a corps which has from the very beginning been directed toward outstanding achievements, and, because of this fact, has developed an especially deep feeling of comradeship. You will be bearing arms with a corps that embraces the most valuable elements of the young German generation. Over and above that you will be especially bound to the National Socialist ideology.”
There is no doubt that they were to be Nazis first and foremost. The formation of the Armed SS was to be around a core of Deaths Head SS which was to be used as a Skeleton of men to flesh out the coming SS Divisions. Again from the Aug 1938 edict by Hitler:
“The skeleton corps-which up to now were units of the two replacement units for the short time training of the reinforcement of the SS-Totenkopf Verbaende-will be transferred to the SS-Verfuegungstruppe as skeleton crews of the replacement units for that unit.”
Now I realise all this was before the war started and certainly not in the last year that we want to focus on. But it serves as the basis for looking ahead and establishes that the Armed SS were always meant to be an arm of the Party.
We now have to skip ahead to April 1943 and a speech by Himmler:
“One basic principle must be the absolute rule for the SS men : We must be honest, decent, loyal and comradely to members of our own blood and to nobody else. What happens to a Russian, to a Czech, does not interest me in the slightest. What other nations can offer in the way of good blood of our type, we will take, if necessary, by kidnapping their children and raising them here with us. Whether nations live in prosperity or starve to death interests me only so far as we need them as slaves for our culture; otherwise, it is of no interest to me. Whether 10,000 Russian females fall down from exhaustion while digging an antitank ditch interests me only insofar as the antitank ditch for Germany is finished.”
“That is what I want to instill into this SS and what I’ believe I have instilled in them as one of the most sacred laws of the future.”
So says the head of the SS, the year before D-Day.
Now we can come to the premise that the Waffen-SS were largely unaware of the Holocaust. This was the original premise before it was slanted to read, In the last year of the War the allies committed as many atrocities as the SS in the West.
I just don’t believe it, the core of the SS certainly knew. Right up until the end of the war the SS were mainly volunteers imbued with Nazism. You cannot even attempt to separate the SS from the Party and therefore they are tarred with the same brush. To simply say that they were ordinary blokes is not true, they weren’t.
And therein, in my opinion, lies the differences between the fighting man of the Allied democracies and the SS. The SS were volunteers who were draw into the organization through a combination of means. They were party soldiers who genuinely believed in the Master Race and had been indoctrinated for years by the Nazi regime. As such they did not have the same respect for other societies that the Allies in the West did.
And finally
By 1944, with the Concentration Camps fully integrated with the Waffen-SS and under the control of the WVHA, a standard practice developed to rotate SS members in and out of the camps, based on manpower needs and also to give assignments to wounded Waffen-SS officers and soldiers who could no longer serve in front line combat duties. This rotation of personnel is the main argument that nearly the entire SS knew of the Concentration Camps, and what actions were committed within, making the entire organization liable for war crimes and crimes against humanity.
Notice the word rotate! I fail to see why the majority could somehow not know!It was for these reasons that the Nuremberg commission declared the whole of the SS as War criminals.
Now I reiterate.
The SS was of the Party, for the Party and by the Party. So you can love them or loathe them, but you cannot defend them.
To have the audacity to say it was only a few guys that carried out the holocaust and the population thought all the Jews were in Butlins by the Black sea just amazes me.
Lastly, its obvious I wont change your mind on this but the German people did know. To deny the fact it delusional. No more from me in this thread and I suggest to keep your SS worship in the appropriate thread/s in future as this is about the murdering scum that escaped to S America.
From a more authoritative voice than yours it has been said that the SS were a party organisation. The Party - The Nazi Party, to use a modern colloquialism were the regime we were trying to change, if Wars are to be anodyne nad media friendly. We fought the Nazi regime not hte Germna people. The Wehrmacht might be excused association with hte more ehinous elements of the Nazi’s programme they after all swore their allegiance to the state. The SS were Party associated and therefore are instrumental in the politics and actions of the Nazi Party.
One could not say that the SS were conscripts in the same way that Elements of the Wehrmacht were. Volunteers joined both forces but in choosing the SS you make a statement about your devotion to the cause. Now admittedly most young men of miltary age wanted to see a greater Germany but the act of getting involved at a party level shows you arent a run of the mill soldier but an actual party supporter.
Correct me if I am wrong but Party supporters were not popular at the end of the war.
bloff, there were 750,000 soldiers of the armed ss. the final solution used about 50,.000 personnel from the totenkopft. many units, with no concentration camp elements, had not heard of this. himmler, explictly tried to keep the concentration camp elements contained in certain units to hide the evidence.
there were rumors, of course, but what can one do>>??! in such a regime. most germans felt that it was impossible that the jews were being murdered and thought it was a load of bs.
not just waffen ss soldiers heard rumors. wermarcht, maybe even luftwaffe soldiers heard abou this. so wtf are the blokes to do? attack a government camp in risk of high treason??? where are the camps?/]
german propoganda showed the camps to be nice, productive places in newsreels to the soldiers. and the soldiers believed it. who can fathom such a thing??
what, so a forcibly transferred wermarcht officer/nco and a conscript “dragged” the jews into this mess?/
read osprey’s men at arms waffen ss 1-38. it documents the war crimes that 10 units have record of. For the majority of the waffen-ss divisions, committing crimes was not a policy of the norm. men were court martialed in most divisions.
its the concentration camp divisions like totenkopf and anti-terriorist units like the 36th ss that condoned this kind of conduct. they blackened the waffen-ss when the majority were brave citizens defending their country/or trying to survive.[/quote]
Hoosefield!,i will go with you good boy 8) ,im afraid since the anglo-cove is having problems with his fucking island and the women,he will never care about the information on his posts,but,when he replies with the same thing,you post just the same info.
I have read his post and he has been disproved by the post at the top of this page. It comes form a more authoritative source and is “referenced”
watch out for David Irving types, is he in fact his main source?
David or Richard? :lol: ,who are you talking about student scaley?
osprey is pretty authoritive if you ask me. and no, that post hasnt disproved anything. read up on the waffen-ss discussion, i hate repeating myself. my family owns a bookstore, so i have unlimited access. i generally don’t wikipedia and “copy and paste”