Panzer projects & prototypes.

I never could understand why the Germans were in love with those dismountable weapon combinations. I can only see mechanical complications for nothing gained. Build an SPG or build a towed gun, but a crane-AFV cum SPG…
If it was about placing guns somewhere a wheeled carriages cant go (which I don´t think was the point), give the carriage its own tracks.

Well the only explanation for the german tank design dicotomy is …they were too german. :slight_smile:

28 cm Duka aus Panther-Fahrgestellen langholzprincip:

Do you think that you had seen all ? well, you dont… what about this ?

The 28cm Duka aus Panther Langholzprincip was the granfather of all the german Waffenträgers, it comprised 2 ausf G chassis carring a 280 mm long range gun. The weapon was downloaded to the ground in order to fire. After that the panther chassis could disengage and used as Munitionspanzers.

Not only that, also being a dusenkanone the Krupp 28 cm piece had a rear gas scape nozzle in order to reduce the recoil…imagine this firing in dusty terrain? a year of waiting until the smoke cloud disapear…:shock:

Pzkpfw IX & X Propaganda Panzers

Two designs wich were published in the german propaganda magazine “signal” in late 1944, the development is purely fictional and was made with the purpose to misinformate the allied intelligence services. Of course given the german inclination for the super heavy panzers those designs does nor appeared so irrational, at list at that time.

“The mighty Panzer X breaching into the Eastern front”, sketch published in Signal oktober 1944.

The stimated data for the Panzer X ( that is stimated according “Signal” ) armor was 240 mm in the front and 120 mm in the sides, the main gun was a 105 mm kwk, weight 150 tons.

looks kinda inflatable:)
I know its propaganda but why is it round?
It doesnt even look scary.

Because rounded, “streamlined” shapes actually are efficient projectile deflectors, my dear Major. Compact hard-core alloy projectiles will fail to penetrate armor at high velocity, because they will deform along the plane of sloped area. Severely sloped armor therefore will maximize deflection of enemy rounds. Very good, and relatively simple explanation of this truly intriguing and well-elaborated problematic is available here:

http://www.panzerworld.net/relativearmour

Of course, many other, highly scientific works are on-line available as well.

And thank you my dear Mr. Panzerknacker for that very intriguing color rendering! It really is highly inspirational. :slight_smile:

It looks like a child’s panzer-themed inflatable bounce house. :slight_smile: :wink:

Duck in cover!!! The hippo-tank is attacking!!! Hahaha, that’s a funny shape.

No problem Librarian always a pleasure, note in the Signal drawing how the “bolshevik” bullet are deflected by the heavy armor.

Duck in cover!!! The hippo-tank is attacking!!! Hahaha, that’s a funny shape

And this is even more childish, the Panzer IX.

O.O The fatty tank…

Self Propelled artillery on Panther Chassis, Rheinmetall Borsig proposals.

The first Rheinmetall attemp to fullfill a requeriment for a self propelled howitzers and cannons that could be dismounted come out in July 1942 , time in wich the Panther was merelya prototype.
The WaPrüf 4 showed little interest in the series design because the always short supply of Panther for other than main battle tank use.

However Rheimetall was undeterred and continue to produce design drawings until december 1944, some of them using completely new weapons and components, the most prominent of that was a big multichamber muzzle brake in the main guns.

Some examples :

12,8 cm K43 slf, january 1943. 128mm dual purpose gun in a high elevation mount and dismountable shield.

12,8 cm Skorpion. april 1943, this “poisonous” design was one for a direct support/tank killer 128 mm self propelled gun. The gun had a separated charge projectile with a muzzle speed of 850 mps.

15 cm schweres Feld Haubitze Panther Bauteilen, 150 mm heavy howitzer april 1943. Not really a Panther chassis but a longer vehicle using several components of the Pz V.

This was clearly a “waffenträger”, the “casemate” shield and gun was designed to used mostly from the ground, the mechanic elements to dismount the gun ( jacks and winch) was carried in the rear and aft of the vehicle.

All profile drawings by Hillary L. Doyle ( god bless him)

That dismountable gun would weigh tonnes… I don’t think a winch or two could lift it…

Indeed, the 128 mm guns weight some like 5 tons and 150 mm gun with shield more than 7 tons.

Self Propelled artillery on Panther Chassis, Rheinmetall Borsig proposals.(II)

Yet one more drawing, this timne a more simple one, s.F.H 18 auf Panther Bauteilen.

This was the standar heavy weapon of the artillerie mounted an enlenghtened ausf D chassis and ( cannot be in other way)dismountable.

If we take a deep look it was like an oversized and overprized Hummel.

towed s.F.H 18

Librarian,
Thank you for the tour. He most expertly drew and faked photographs of the mythical PzKw Tiger III/E90. I suppose it was not too hard to be fooled as his drawings were so close to real things (i.e. planned designs). Actually, an E-90 would have been an excellent tank design. As the Allies called all German tanks “Tigers”, here is another case where the term would apply.
Schwerepunkt:)

Minenraumgerät mit Pzkpfw III antrieb.

Minenraumgerat mit Pz III antrieb = Mine destroyer apparatus with pz III transmition.

Is not know wich firm developed this specializated mineclearer tank in mid 1941. Originally was tough that the extended suspenssion was used to roll over the mines and the enlenghtened torsion bars arms would be capable to withstand the blast. However that is simple not possible because the average antitank mine would cut off the pins of the track.

More evidence has been brought in the way of photos, in those a steel cross bar is seen in the front, that bar was used as the conection for two heavy steel rollers.

The extension of the tracks and suspenssion was designed to minimizate the noise, blast and stress on the crew manning the Raumgerat when it hit a mine. No operational use of the two Minenraumgerät Pz III antrieb is recorded.

The Pz IX and X must have represented an all new technology. They were probably the first (and last) pregnant tanks, intended as they were to give birth to a range of smaller tanks. Sadly for the Germans the pregnancy of the tanks was longer than the war. Perhaps a scheme intended to produce tanks which consumed less strategic raw materials… :confused:

The British were close, The Mark I (female)!

Mannschaftstransportwagen ARW Magirus

The Magirus variant of the ARW was slightly better armored, so in order to save some weight special cast aluminium alloy center roadwheels were developed and manufactured for this model.

Also the turret was different, it had a two crew but with 2 MG 08 7,92mm water cooled machineguns, no cannon installed. The machineguns mounting allowed some independet movement and the turret itself could turn 360 º by hand.

A single prototype of this heavy armored car was completed for test trials in the winter 1930.

Good looking thing the Magirus ARW, almost race car-like in design. Why didn´t they build them? I think the Germans also tested 10x10 chassis´s at this time and found them too expensive. The later 8x8´s were also quite expensive…
Do you any more data on these (beatiful) vehicles?