Chevan sorry to butt in but are you suggesting Poland embraced communism voluntarily as opposed to being forced by russian terror and occupation ?
To start with it was not communism, it was socialism.
See my post above…point 4. Poland was completely and utterly sold-out by the Western Allies. France and England went to war with Germany in support of an independent Poland. As the war came to a conclusion…they agreed to allow Poland to come under the Soviet sphere of influence, completely abandoning their 1939 support of an independent Poalnd. The government in exile in London was completely disregarded and replaced with communists, puppets to their Soviet masters.
Actually if you want to play around with de facto political state then Soviet Russia as with today Russia is a fascist state since it has all de facto features of one, the strong cult of the leader, lack of ethical or moral consideration, abuse of its own citizens, corporationist structure, most of it not official but a de facto state.
However Soviets referred to themselves quite often as communists and its easier for the people to recognize it as such without playing with what Marks and Engels actually meant.
Of course, ignoring all the treaties France and England had with Poland come september 1 they did nothing.
England declared war, so did France and thats it, French moved a few miles towards Germany and … nothing.
NOT a single british battleship attacked german harbours.
NO naval blockade by Britain.
NO attack by France.
Basically both countries just waited and hoped Germany would settle for Poland and give them a break, the war was declared but everything went on as if peacetime relations still continued, neither of both countries shot a single bullet.
But wait it gets better.
After the war Poland, the first country who stood up to Hitler, never surrendered and lost most of its nation gets sold to Stalin and Russians by US and UK.
I repeat, Poland should have joined the Nazi Germany, it was in polish interest to fight against both Russia and the West alongside Germans rather then be sold first into Nazi hell then into Russian one.
A declaration of war is never a minor matter.
A declaration of war in those circumstances was a very significant step by two nations trying to avoid war with Germany but prepared to bring it on to protect Poland.
It may have been futile, but it wasn’t insignificant, and it was entirely to the advantage of Poland and to the disadvantage of Britain and France.
So how do you reconcile the absence of any bullets being fired by France and Britain with what happened up to the end of the war where, with France being defeated and occupied and Britain fighting on, there was not one British or French life lost in consequence of starting a war with Germany over Poland? FFS!
Poland didn’t mind when it joined Hitler in carving up Czechoslovakia, which actually stood up to Hitler before Poland and got done over by Poland, among other nations.
Well, Poland did join the Nazis in carving up Czechoslovakia.
It’s not Britain’s or France’s fault that that didn’t work out.
If it was okay for Poland to join the Nazis in carving up Czechoslovakia, why get upset about anyone else doing it to Poland?
Also, why complain about Britain and France not marching through Germany to defend Poland when Poland wouldn’t allow the Soviets to march through Poland to defend Czechoslovakia?
A one eyed view of events is understandable for anyone affected by them, but if you want to engage in historical debate instead of nationalist diatribe then try to take a wider view of events.
I couldn’t agree more.
Oops.
My mistake.
I thought you were talking about Bush Jnr’s America. 
What kind of revisionist pro-nazi are you, if two countries who promised Poland immidiete military aid and prosecution of war untill its victory do nothing, do not attack and merely camp at the border with a fake war then how do they helped Poland ? They sold it and broke the treaties and thats it.
Learn History, Germany wanted to attack France anyway, it was Germany who attacked, France was fighting in its own defence, the war of 1940 had NOTHING to do with Poland on whom both UK and France pissed with warm urine when they had promised her help.
Poland took the lands that were in dispute since 1920, it used the opportunity but did not work with Hitler nor was there any official or unoficial communication between Berlin and Warsaw, besides France and UK were obliged by very specific treaties to Poland, treaties that involved far more than just declaring the war, they meant actual prosecution of war untill victory with all available forces, both countries did not, ie they sold Poland to Hitler.
No wonder we ended up sold, with pro nazi twats like that… Czechoslovakia got sold out by Chamberlain in the fucking first place, yes its Britains fault it didnt work out,and France since they’re directly responsible for what happened in Czechoslovakia and Poland.
Their cowardice and complacency made the war longer by 5 bloody years.
Because it was obvious and Soviets made it clear that they dont want Poland on the map, you dont allow a fucking hostile power into your borders, again i gave solid proof that we were betrayed and by pro-nazi complacent twats like you.
There was a nazi guy in France who asked why should we die for Warsaw in 1939 well soon war came home, btw this guy sounded amazingly like you.
From my narrow perspective, the best kind. A live one.
Did France and Britain camp at Poland’s eastern or western border?
I must have missed that early manouevre in the war that you say didn’t happen because France and Britain didn’t move, but apparently it involved Anglo-French forces marching through either Germany or the USSR.
I’d appreciate you expanding on that, as your posts so far are astoundingly original in the novel information they convey.
It’s a privilege to be taught history by someone with your breadth of knowledge and clarity of thought.
Thank you for that historical elucidation. It’s cleared things up no end. Now I understand why you make sense, to yourself.
That makes it alright then.
Well, Britain and France paid for it in their blood for the next six years and Hitler never sent either of them a centime or a penny.
Who do you think got the worst part of selling Poland?
Well, you should have strengthened the co-operation with the nazis you didn’t co-operate with over Czechoslovakia like you didn’t co-operate with them over it but like you say Poland should have in the whole war.
That all has to be Poland’s fault, doesn’t it?
I object to being called complacent.
Well, me old sport, it’s not me, because I’m still alive and proudly displaying my blood group tattoo on my inner left arm as I wave my tattered old hakenkreuz armband at passing Skodas just to piss off the Czechs who survived being carved up by your lot.
P.S. I’m grateful to you for adding pro to revisionist and nazi in your earlier comments.
I wouldn’t want anyone to think I was a nazi revisionist who wasn’t a pro-nazi.
It’s always best to clear these things up.
Um, I don’t recall them having a lot of say in that matter as Germany and the SU were a bit closer to poor Poland…
…completely abandoning their 1939 support of an independent Poalnd. The government in exile in London was completely disregarded and replaced with communists, puppets to their Soviet masters.
They didn’t completely abandon her. They declared War and did send a military mission to Poland. I think it was led by Gen. Weygand, who later claimed that the Poles basically ignored him. In any case, the Western Allies couldn’t even take just Germany in the end, they were supposed to fight the Soviets too? I think people tend to forget that there was a real chance of the Western Allies fighting the Soviets beginning with their aggression in Finland, and fighting a Germany-Soviet alliance was unthinkable; so there was little chance of the French and British launching war in the East, especially if you look at the map.
In any case, the Anglo-French alliance was actually very confident in victory by 1942 since they had an overwhelming long term strategic advantage in industry and raw materials over the Germans which is why they chose to sit an wait, which is why Germany would launch Fall Gelb (which was actually somewhat of a desperate gamble) Operation Barbarossa because their main source for everything was the USSR. The French Army was not fully mobilized until the end of the Polish War and Germany was already beginning to refit and transfer its forces west.
They didn’t ignore them - they claimed War. One which they weren’t ready for…
England declared war, so did France and thats it, French moved a few miles towards Germany and … nothing.
Yes, but what would have happened had France continued the Saar Offensive? They Luftwaffe chewed up the RAF and the Armée de l’Air as it was. Even the French knew that this was their great weakness, that they simply could not match the Germans in tactical aircraft nor fighters…
NOT a single british battleship attacked german harbours.
NO naval blockade by Britain.
NO attack by France.
There was a pinprick attack by the French, and the French Army was still mobilising and formulating itself by the siege of Warsaw. They simply were not ready and their strategy was a defensive one in nature because of their low birthrate (half that of Germany’s in terms of manpower) and they spent a good deal of funds and time building the Maginot Line…
Of course they’d of been better off building a larger air force, multiple lines of “defense-in-depth” anti-tank fortifications (rather than one huge fort failing to fortify its Belgian frontier), and a central mobile armored corp to quickly counterattack and cut-off any German breakthroughs…
But this is all hindsight…
Basically both countries just waited and hoped Germany would settle for Poland and give them a break, the war was declared but everything went on as if peacetime relations still continued, neither of both countries shot a single bullet.
But wait it gets better.
After the war Poland, the first country who stood up to Hitler, never surrendered and lost most of its nation gets sold to Stalin and Russians by US and UK.
I repeat, Poland should have joined the Nazi Germany, it was in polish interest to fight against both Russia and the West alongside Germans rather then be sold first into Nazi hell then into Russian one.
You’re completely wrong. What both countries were actually “waiting for” was overwhelming strategic superiority over Germany in production and raw materials since the Third Reich was highly dependent on the Soviets for their necessities, and the German economy was hopelessly behind in terms of moving to a war economy. The simple terms is that the Anglo-French were simply going to starve Germany, force Germany to launch herself against the Franco-forces who would then fight a defensive battle of annihilation, then they would lurch into Germany in mid-1941 after the Germans had suffered heavy casualties…
And as for the Polish, I don’t think the French or the British thought they would be defeated as rapidly as they were, neither did the Polish, because at least as far as the French thought, warfare was a slow, “methodical” process. They had yet to grasp the rapid battle of maneuver that the Wehrmacht was solely capable of.
Nick French had 90 fully equipped divisions on the border where Germany had 20 divisions with a total of some 200 tanks and armored cars and less than 50 combat airplanes, also given the scale of engangement on the polish front withdrawing any sort of forces up to 17 september was not possible since despite their rapid advance germans were facing brick wall resistance and needed every tank, airplane and soldier in Poland.
Thats the point, in 1939 there was no luftwaffe in the west, zippo, zero, nada.
There was a motley bunch of older planes and some two hundred armored vehicles with 20 undermanned paper divisions against a full might of 90 french divisions geared up to the teeth.
Nick this is getting ridiculous, in 1939 Germany had no forces available to defend itself and withdrawing them from the polish front meant losing in Poland, when you have 90 divisions, outnumber your enemy in everything from mgs to tanks and planes and know that he has no reserves and is engaged in an intensive combat you attack.
If 90 fully equipped and mobilised divisions ready to march is what you call “not ready” i really surrender the discussion.
Polish high command made stupid mistakes, Poland had every chance of fighting a far more succesfull campaign but thats another threads material, point is the Germany had 20 reserve divisions without any significant hardware on them, no reserves, no airpower and no capability to send one, french had 90 divisions, brits had a massive fleet.
The Allies had a massive manpower and material advantage at that time, any offensive would have crumpled Germany instantly and if Germans tried to withdrew significant forces from the polish front they’d allow the polish army to finish the romoanian triangle and its mobilisation which meant they could kiss any hope of victory goodbye.
Allies were ready for war since Germans could offer no real defence, these 20 underequipped divisions were enough and by selling out Poland for a few months of peace they allowed Hitler another 5 years of hell.
Poland occupied those territories as a result of war thanks to huge military and political support on behalf of Entente. Actually the appearance and existance of Poland in the 1920-30s were possible only due to France and Britain.
it used the opportunity but did not work with Hitler nor was there any official or unoficial communication between Berlin and Warsaw, besides France and UK were obliged by very specific treaties to Poland, treaties that involved far more than just declaring the war, they meant actual prosecution of war untill victory with all available forces, both countries did not, ie they sold Poland to Hitler.
In January 1934 Poland concluded a non-aggression pact with Germany’s new Nazi government, subsequently rejecting (September 27) French proposals for an Eastern European security pact directed against Germany.
It also signed a number of treaties about economic and other kinds of cooperation with Nazi Germany. German specialists had aided in building new Polish prisons and concentration camps before WWII.
Apart from occupying Czechoslovakia’s Cieszyn area, Poland presented an ultimatum to Lithuania in March, 1938, demanding the diplomatic relations between Poland and Lithuania to be re-established and the previously closed border with Poland to be opened [1]. Faced with a threat of war, the Lithuanian government accepted the Polish demands
Wrong, all territories aquired in a direct post war period were done with 100% polish forces, equipment and effort, the only support Entente gave was the “blue army” which while significant was neither huge nor decisive.
You’re both wrong and right, the appearance of Poland was because France and Britain fought an attricious war with Germany however when Poland did pop up it it did so with nearly a milion strong army over a period of a single year, firmly spanked the soviet invasion force and by then Germany and Russia were not in position of denial since Russia was stabilizing itself after the revolution and Germany was militarly speaking much weaker than Poland at that time, western powers accepted the de facto state of matters but Poland rising back to existence was through efforts of poles alone.
Mainly because the french proposals did not offer safety in any form, also because Poland tried not to antagonize Germany.
Poland did not use or operate concentration camps nor labor camps, there existed two prison camps but they did not feature torture, forced labour or starvation diet, the only thing german companies provided was heating systems, i ask of this once, please refrain from accusing Poland of running concentration or slave camps.
Now sir i assume it was not your intention to show Poland as cooperating with the nazi you are aware that nazi or not Germany was there and some kind of political relations had to be established.
Which the Czechs occupied previously taking it from Poland.
This happened due to a massive crisis and mistreatment of polish citizens, the problem itself is more complicated but also irrelevant for our discussion here.
Um, firstly. The 20 German divisions statement was from the German commander, but the TOE clearly showed that he had at least 33 divisions, not counting enough German border guards to fill six more, and then under the Wehrmacht chain of command…
So, there were probably closer to 40 German divisions defending the Saar area and the Siegfried line. Granted, many of these were second-rate troops hastily called up. But then, so were the so-called “90 divisions” you keep going on about were not active nor had most of them been in the standing Army until two-weeks prior.
The French only mobilized their largely citizen army at the end of August, then only partially in response to the German build-up to the east. Full mobilization did not start until the invasion of Poland, and wasn’t completed until early November of 1939. Then there was the question of training.
The actual peacetime totals for the might French Army of the late 1930s was as little as about 150,000 fully trained professionals that formed the central training corp for what was politically mandated to be a peoples army based largely on reserves or militia, since French gov’t rarely trusted a large professional, standing army. Most of those 90 (the entire French Army at that time) lacked training, and had a command that was impervious to the thoughts of carrying out any offensive action. If the French are guilty of anything, it’s their politicians that promised much, while mistaking France’s military might as largely on paper…
No plans had been made for the event of an offensive into Germany and the Saar was little more than a glorified probe. There was little room for the French to act, and you’re also assuming that the French knew exactly what the Germans had facing them. The found themselves facing the exact same position they wished the Germans to be in: stopped just short of a potentially powerful, fortified defense line in the Siegfried Line. The truth is that the French and British were all but incapable of defeating the Germans as they would have faced the very same problems the Polish did – the Germans were simply fighting on another level of speed and intensity, time and space, that local units of all their adversaries could not hope to match, unless they could find some sort of breathing room. For the British, this would be the Channel, for the Soviets, this would be time and space of the vast expanses of its nation…
Thats the point, in 1939 there was no luftwaffe in the west, zippo, zero, nada.
Um, the Luftwaffe had about 5,500 aircraft, half of those were sent to Poland. The Luftwaffe still maintained a fighter screen of Me-109s…
Polish high command made stupid mistakes,
And the French would go on to make the same mistakes, probably worse ones…
Poland had every chance of fighting a far more succesfull campaign but thats another threads material, point is the Germany had 20 reserve divisions without any significant hardware on them, no reserves, no airpower and no capability to send one, french had 90 divisions, brits had a massive fleet.
The 20 divisions were active, 11 were reserves, and roughly the equivalent of six were border guards…
The Allies had a massive manpower and material advantage at that time, any offensive would have crumpled Germany instantly and if Germans tried to withdrew significant forces from the polish front they’d allow the polish army to finish the romoanian triangle and its mobilisation which meant they could kiss any hope of victory goodbye.
Allies were ready for war since Germans could offer no real defence, these 20 under-equipped divisions were enough and by selling out Poland for a few months of peace they allowed Hitler another 5 years of hell.
The Allies had the appallingly dated tactical doctrine of “methodical battle,” and a planned strategy that stipulated that they were to fight a defensive battle at first, and were given to both political haggling and poor leadership from their respective gov’t and high command…
The data comes from polish inteligence and two german general staff commanders, the order of battle might as well be paper divisions.
No there were not, numerically no more than 20 were present and thats because we know how many troops Germany had at the time and exactly how many and with what equipment were fighting in Poland, there could have been 40 organisational units on paper, the combat strength never exceeded twenty undermanned divisions, today we know that around 150 thousand troops in total were deployed, we know that they had few to none tanks and airplanes, they were basically armed with rifles and machineguns everything else was rare.
Which at the time was not a viable defensive position and consisted mostly of trenches and hasty earthworks.
No, all of them were reserve divisions, in many places little more than militias and garrison regiments, not a single of them was combat worthy.
Rubbish, by 9 of september France had a total of 40 divisions mobilised and on the border with Germany, these had the full support of the french airforce, artillery and airforce, they were fully organised and ready for war.
Their advantage in tanks alone was 20 to 1, fully combat worthy units in opposition of a motley bunch of underarmed recruits, further 50 divisions had a fair percentage of low quality units but they were a reserve that Germany did not have.
Completely irrelevant point since they did have enough units in time and refused to use them, the 40 divisions were completely mobilised and prepared for deployment.
Again completely irrelevant straw argument on your part, every source including wikipedia will tell you that the French had a fully prepared overwhelming force ready in september in time to actually enact a succesfull offensive operation.
I’m assuming nothing, the French knew exactly what they faced since both their aerial reconeissance and polish intelligence gave them a very solid idea of how utterly defencless their opposition was.
V
You mean the Siegfried Line that at the time was some 20% completed and consisted mostly of trenchworks ?
At the time everyone knew that the Siegfried line is just being built and is anything but powerful or fortified, next please.
What the bloody hell are you talking about ? 90% of german armor artillery and combat aircraft were in Poland, what speed, what tactics ? The only units Germans could use didnt have even a fraction of machines and weapons they needed, everything that made german army so dangerous was IN POLAND.
Is it so hard to comprehend ? Allies have this honking big army and they face what is basically a bunch of guys with rifles and an odd canon in trenches what bloody speed or tactical level are you talking about ?
No, the Luftwaffe had 3000 aircraft, 1400 combat aircraft and of those 1200 were present in Poland together with 400 various other aircraft.
This leaves us 200 actuall combat aircraft for your “fighter screen”.
France at the same time had 1450 aircraft, 935 of them combat aircraft, that doesnt even tackle the fact that brits could add to this within a week with their airpower, this gives us 4 to 1 ratio in the air, so no there would be no screen as anything Luftwaffe could trow at the allies would be utterly completely crushed.
Doesnt matter, with that kind of disparity in the forces you can pretty much piss of tactics and strategy and just go for Berlin, german forces in the region were too few, to badly equipped to serve in any role save for static defense.
Again not relevant, the point is that allies had an overwhelming advantage in every possible field both in terms of quality and quantity and blew it by doing nothing.
Hard facts are that allies had a massive force deployed and ready for action against an enemy who could not possibly defend himself with the forces he had and no reserves to draw upon since the level of resistance in Poland meant that significant shift in forces would end up in defeat on either front.
Unless youre telling me that everyone in high command of both countries suffered from severe retardation and was busy drooling at the nearest corner than we have no argument.
Allies had a massive force ready for instant deployment, Germans had nothing to defend with and allies knew it, allies did nothing.
That. Is. Treason.
The data is self-serving and questionable. Even is they were just paper divisions, the French clearly believed that they existed…
No there were not, numerically no more than 20 were present and thats because we know how many troops Germany had at the time and exactly how many and with what equipment were fighting in Poland,
Sure, they just dialed up the Satellite imagery and instantly came up with the exact troop dispositions of the Wehrmacht…
there could have been 40 organisational units on paper, the combat strength never exceeded twenty undermanned divisions, today we know that around 150 thousand troops in total were deployed, we know that they had few to none tanks and airplanes, they were basically armed with rifles and machineguns everything else was rare.
But…the…French…didn’t…know…this…
Again, hindsight!
The French were terrified, paralyzed at the thought of getting into an early battle of attrition with Germany they could not win in terms of manpower…
Which at the time was not a viable defensive position and consisted mostly of trenches and hasty earthworks.
No, all of them were reserve divisions, in many places little more than militias and garrison regiments, not a single of them was combat worthy.
Again, not the point. And Siegfried Line was more than just earthworks by this point even. It was never an impenetrable line. But apparently the nuance of the French Army’s incapability to take unilateral action escapes you…
Rubbish, by 9 of september France had a total of 40 divisions mobilised and on the border with Germany, these had the full support of the french airforce, artillery and airforce, they were fully organised and ready for war.
No shit! But they were largely as useless as the germans on the other side. They lacked training and cohesion…
That the French (regular Army) was little more that a fortress garrison and training cadre. So, consequently, few were ready to go after a general mobilization conducted little more than a week later. It was a system heavily dependent on reserves…
Their advantage in tanks alone was 20 to 1, fully combat worthy units in opposition of a motley bunch of underarmed recruits, further 50 divisions had a fair percentage of low quality units but they were a reserve that Germany did not have.
Since the majority in the French command had no idea how to use some of their fine machines, the tanks were, in your favorite new word, “irrelevant.” They were thinly spread out across the front in almost any early French deployment and their tanks were ill suited for coherent mechanized warfare since they had no radios and an over burdened tank commander, which showed even in tank battles where the French came off well, early in the Belgian sector…
Furthermore, the French still thought the infantrymen was the center piece of battle, in a very slow, methodical coordinated ballet movement in conjunction with tanks and the artillery, based on their successes in 1918…
Completely irrelevant point since they did have enough units in time and refused to use them, the 40 divisions were completely mobilised and prepared for deployment.
What they “had” were a bunch of guys recently called up from their homes that would have been lambs for the feast of the more experienced, better trained, professional, and now battle hardened Wehrmacht formations exiting Poland once they got through the initial screen, and it still would have taken the French a while by the very nature of their doctrine! Again, the French Army was primarily reserves, these take time to train and prepare for battle…
Again completely irrelevant straw argument on your part, every source including wikipedia will tell you that the French had a fully prepared overwhelming force ready in september in time to actually enact a succesfull offensive operation.
Straw argument? You clearly know nothing of the French Army, recite the typical myths, and blame all of Polands problems on the “betrayel” myth.
If the French “betrayed” Poland, then they betrayed themselves in their own defeat. Their failure, and inability, to act in the Saar was related to the same failure that awaited them in May of 1940…
I’m assuming nothing, the French knew exactly what they faced since both their aerial reconeissance and polish intelligence gave them a very solid idea of how utterly defencless their opposition was.
LOL The omnipresent “Polish intelligence” again. And French photo-reconnaissance was obviously of limited value since they missed the panzer divisions waiting to cut their jugular in the Ardennes in April to May of 1940…
You mean the Siegfried Line that at the time was some 20% completed and consisted mostly of trenchworks ?
At the time everyone knew that the Siegfried line is just being built and is anything but powerful or fortified, next please.
Oh please! :rolleyes: You’re just making up facts now, “strawman.” The “West Wall” had been under construction since mid-1938, and it was finished by 1940. It was obviously more than that, even by 1939 there were already extensive concrete and armored bunkers…
What the bloody hell are you talking about ? 90% of german armor artillery and combat aircraft were in Poland, what speed, what tactics ? The only units Germans could use didnt have even a fraction of machines and weapons they needed, everything that made german army so dangerous was IN POLAND.
Is it so hard to comprehend ? Allies have this honking big army and they face what is basically a bunch of guys with rifles and an odd canon in trenches what bloody speed or tactical level are you talking about ?
The “honking big army” was at best a half-trained shell incapable of sustained offensive action. And the Germans, despite your beliefs, had already started shifting some of their armor out of Poland for refitting as the Polish campaign became more an infantry, artillery, and air support affair, much like Fall Rot was (the second leg of the conquest of France). The Poles were done for by the 17th!
And what was to be achieved as far as Poland was concerned, they were still largely defeated by Sept. 17, as the Soviets rolled in the very same day of the French Saar offensive. Was France to risk putting Germany in the same camp as the Soviets, even risking a War against Russia too?
No, the Luftwaffe had 3000 aircraft, 1400 combat aircraft and of those 1200 were present in Poland together with 400 various other aircraft.
This leaves us 200 actuall combat aircraft for your “fighter screen”.
France at the same time had 1450 aircraft, 935 of them combat aircraft, that doesnt even tackle the fact that brits could add to this within a week with their airpower, this gives us 4 to 1 ratio in the air, so no there would be no screen as anything Luftwaffe could trow at the allies would be utterly completely crushed.
Where exactly are you getting these numbers from? There were almost 5,500 hundred aircraft available to the Luftwaffe by 1940. There’s no way they only had 3000 by the end of 1939. I don’t know the exact disposition of those forces, but the Germans certainly had more Luftwaffe assets than that…And again, and the USSR hit Poland, the Germans could then quickly pull many of their forces out if need be, and the French never would have gotten that far…
And the French air force, while having good pilots and some good equipment, was only nominally effective since it too had many constraints on it by the Army and Navy, and their tactical bomber wings were too few in number…
Doesnt matter, with that kind of disparity in the forces you can pretty much piss of tactics and strategy and just go for Berlin, german forces in the region were too few, to badly equipped to serve in any role save for static defense.
Hard facts are that allies had a massive force deployed and ready for action against an enemy who could not possibly defend himself with the forces he had and no reserves to draw upon since the level of resistance in Poland meant that significant shift in forces would end up in defeat on either front.
Yeah, easy for you to say in hindsight…In any case, those Germans only had to fight a holding action as the French were incapable of large scale battles of rapid, combined arms maneuver…
The French also outnumbered the Germans in artillery almost two-to-one in the Battle of France. Did it matter?
Again not relevant, the point is that allies had an overwhelming advantage in every possible field both in terms of quality and quantity and blew it by doing nothing.
Then how did the Germans roll them up in six weeks of 1940?
Feel free to read on the subject. Even the Wiki page is quite good on this one…
Unless youre telling me that everyone in high command of both countries suffered from severe retardation and was busy drooling at the nearest corner than we have no argument.
Yeah, that would aptly describe Gamelin. 
Edit: that’s probably not really fair. But he tended to make asinine comments that betrayed a limited understanding of mechanized and air warfare…
Allies had a massive force ready for instant deployment, Germans had nothing to defend with and allies knew it, allies did nothing.
That. Is. Treason.
No, that is hindsight…
You surpasses communists’ propaganda.
Allies fully trained, equiped and armed the whole Polish Army in France. It was unprecedented.
Allies forced Germans to let it pass to Poland and it played crucial role in Polish-Ukrainian War and later in conflict with the Soviets.
In 1918-1921 Poland did receive huge versatile military and political support from the Allies and only it enabled Poles to defeat the Ukrainian forces in the West of Ukraine and stop the Soviet offensive.
And we must not forget that it was not only the french who supported the Poles.
Great Britain sent planes, guns and ammo. Italy gave the Poles some 100 000 rifles.
Source: Najnowsza historia polski 1914-1945, part I, pages: 64-77. Author: Wojchiech Roszkowski.
You are going to say that these tanks were not from Entente but your home made. Some tanks of Polish 1st Tank Regiment during the en:Battle of Dyneburg
The blue army numbered 80-90 thousand troops, it helped a lot that it was there but it was not crucial, the polish army at the time reached a milion total troops, are you saying that because allies provided roughly a tenth of our armed forces we survived ?
Thats a steaming pile of horse dung mate, dont say “gave” Poland paid a healthy sum for every rifle, tank or airplane, these were not donations, they were bought, by money, polish money, i’m familiar with Roszkowski and since so are you then there wouldnt be any argument.
Poland bought equipment, there was very little charity involved so i fail to see your point, allies did not help they just did business with us.
Nope they are definitely BOUGHT from Entente.
I rest my case, we won our sovereignty by ourselves, sure we bought weapons but we paid money and good money too so its hardly help, we got our boys from blue army across Germany but they were not a huge force and we still had to buy the weapons they carried so where’s that allied help ?