Republicans VS Democrats

[pdf27]

@StalingradK

Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. Stop insinuating there is.

Possibly not, but according to someone I know in the Thai army they have proof Hussein was helping train the people behind the insurgency they currently have down by the Malaysian border. Furthermore, he was actively supporting terrorism in Israel by paying very large amounts of money to suicide bombers. There isn’t a direct connection, but that doesn’t make him a good guy.

@StalingradK

Where is Osama? Why are we in Iraq if fucking Osama Bin Laden is free? Since he is free, obviously Bush didn’t do his job, did he?

Depends on what the task is - if it was to suppress the threat posed by Bin Laden’s group the US has done very well indeed. If it was to get Bin Laden’s head on a platter and ignore the rest of his group (leaving it free to plan further attacks) it has failed.

@StalingradK

The 9/11 commission makes it very clear that Bush’s administration ignored signs of a pending attack. Stop pretending it was a surprise.

All depends on what sort of surprise - they may well have known that there were nutters out there who wanted to hurt Americans, but that’s a very long way from being able to stop the plot. I’ve seen no evidence that anyone was ever in possession of all the evidence needed to do this, short of a preemptive invasion of Afghanistan.

@StalingradK

Abu Ghraib was a direct result of Bush’s previous disregard for the Geneva Convention. Don’t pretend it didn’t happen or was an isolated incident. Bush is ultimately responsible for the torture.

Utter tripe. It was a direct result of poorly supervised reservist troops being placed in charge of prisoners. Read up on the Stanford Experiment - this is a known problem with any type of jailer, and when the jailers are inexperienced and poorly supervised is almost inevitable. Those directly involved are (rightly) being **** upon from a great height by the US Army, but some others (notably Gen. Karpinski (?sp)) seem to have got off very lightly.

[Firefly]

Sorry I wasnt talking of the rabbit killing version, I was meaning the M-16 type weapons, Im thinking you wouldnt use them to go killing Wabbits?

[pdf27]

@StalingradK

There are no Weapons of Mass Destruction. Bush LIED. Don’t try to call Kerry a liar to minimize his deceptions.

Bush made incorrect statements. This does not infer he lied - to be a lie, he had to know the statements were false at the time he made them, and all the evidence to date suggests he didn’t. Whether or not he is a credulous fool for believing the data put before him is another matter.
Oh, and Kerry lying or not is independent of whether or not Bush lied - I’m quite happy to believe they both lied. They are both politicians after all

@StalingradK

Kerry served in Vietnam. Bush was AWOL. These are facts.

Bush may have been absent with or without leave - there is no convincing proof either way. Incidentally, the aircraft he flew in the ANG had a reputation for killing large numbers of pilots.
Kerry found himself in the war by accident (at the time he applied for transfer the Swift boats were actually a very safe posting) and got out of combat as fast as he could.
Neither has an impressive record, although George HW Bush (i.e. the elder) does have rather a good war record.

@StalingradK

Iraq and Afganistan are not free. Stop fucking saying they are. LIARS. They are under U.S. military occupation.

“Military Occupation” is a specifically defined legal status under the Geneva/Hague Conventions (I think it’s in both, but can’t be bothered to check). Neither Iraq or Afghanistan fall into this category. Both are also more free than they were in 2000.

@StalingradK

Anti-choice. This party thinks a woman’s right to choose should be against the law (obstensibly to save the life of an unborn child… but they don’t mind killing thousands of innocent Iraqis, do they?).

Umm… “Anti-Choice” means that they are against allowing people to legally kill fetuses before a certain time after conception. Whether or not this should be legal is a perfectly legitimate debate. However I would note that in ancient Rome the Paterfamilias had the legal right to kill his wife and/or children if he wished to. Denying him this “right” could also happily be described as “Anti-Choice”, yet I don’t think anyone would dispute that this should not be allowed.
As for the “don’t mind killing thousands of innocent Iraqis”, you really don’t have a clue about what goes through people’s minds in this sort of situation do you?

@StalingradK

Bush should be in jail for war crimes for that matter.

Name a single war crime he has committed. Bet you can’t.

@StalingradK

When asked a basic question in a press conference, Bush exclaimed that he couldn’t think under pressure and wished that the question had been given in advance. Terrorists don’t give questions in advance George, you’re not fit to run this country.

Terrorists also attack slowly enough that you can stop for a few minutes to think through your response and discuss with advisers. Hence, this is a strawman arguament.

[Man_of_Stoat]

They mooted the idea of keeping wpns at clubs in NL a while back, however it is an unacceptable state of affairs for the following reasons;

1. It will kill competitions, since you won’t be able to travel with your wpns, and competitions are the raison d’être for sports shooters.
2. Many of us have to handload for obscure calibres, so have to be able to do that at home.
3. Security. If all wpns are stored at clubs, then the crims know where they are and will just drive a bulldozer through the wall to get to them. When 1 in 50 or 1 in 100 people have them, only the clubs and police know who does. You put 300+ wpns in one known place, you’d better have a whole heap of security. It is frankly not as safe as keeping them locked at home where very few people know they are.

[pdf27]

@StalingradK

Ok read it all? Long read huh? :lol: ok, as I await bashing by the Republicans IN AMERICA, I’ll do me Homework :).

I’m neither a Republican or in America (in fact, if you listen to Tin Breeches I’m a fully paid-up anti-American member of the Brit Thug Gang). However, I can spot a grossly flawed arguament shot through with lies, misapprehensions and plain idiocy even at this distance.

[Firefly]

@Man_of_Stoat

They mooted the idea of keeping wpns at clubs in NL a while back, however it is an unacceptable state of affairs for the following reasons;

1. It will kill competitions, since you won’t be able to travel with your wpns, and competitions are the raison d’être for sports shooters.
2. Many of us have to handload for obscure calibres, so have to be able to do that at home.
3. Security. If all wpns are stored at clubs, then the crims know where they are and will just drive a bulldozer through the wall to get to them. When 1 in 50 or 1 in 100 people have them, only the clubs and police know who does. You put 300+ wpns in one known place, you’d better have a whole heap of security. It is frankly not as safe as keeping them locked at home where very few people know they are.

I have to agree, you make eminent sence there. Then in this case I dont really have an answer for the way forward.

[StalingradK]

And you know they didn’t have a clue there were not WMD’s how? If we wanted to find them if they were really there, we could have done recon with Special Op troops.

Iraq is not free, why don’t you go to the capital, the lockdown is worst than the situation between Israel and Palestine. So the prevention of travel was there before 2000?

War crimes? He hasn’t killed anyone himself, but the troops have killed Thousands of innocents… For a “Freedom” that could have happened as it did in desert storm. That is devestation, maybe not a war crime, but 10,000 dead mostly innocent and unarmed Iraqis comes damn close.

“Terrorists also attack slowly enough that you can stop for a few minutes to think through your response and discuss with advisers.” Clearify this please.

[StalingradK]

It’s like people want the American military to discuss all their happenings to the public. If they did this, we wouldn’t be the best in the world would we?

[pdf27]

@StalingradK

And you know they didn’t have a clue there were not WMD’s how? If we wanted to find them if they were really there, we could have done recon with Special Op troops.

Err… whatever you’re smoking, share! That would be utterly impossible and practically suicidal for the troops involved.
In any case, the majority of the Iraqi troops thought they had chemical weapons - so what was the US meant to believe!

@StalingradK

Iraq is not free, why don’t you go to the capital, the lockdown is worst than the situation between Israel and Palestine. So the prevention of travel was there before 2000?

Oh, have you been to Baghdad recently then? In any case, I didn’t say it was free - merely that it was sovereign (i.e. not under military occupation). Which it has been for around a year now.

@StalingradK

War crimes? He hasn’t killed anyone himself, but the troops have killed Thousands of innocents… For a “Freedom” that could have happened as it did in desert storm. That is devestation, maybe not a war crime, but 10,000 dead mostly innocent and unarmed Iraqis comes damn close.

Ummm… no they haven’t, the overwhelming majority of “innocents” have been killed by the insurgents of various stripes. In any case, that is not in and of itself a war crime. Very clearly so. Yet you stated he was personally guilty of war crimes - something it now appears you knew wasn’t true in the first place.

@StalingradK

“Terrorists also attack slowly enough that you can stop for a few minutes to think through your response and discuss with advisers.” Clearify this please.

Bush declined to answer a question at a news conference because he hadn’t had time to think through his answer and discuss it with people whose opinion he trusted. Unless you’re personally caught up in a terrorist attack, there is no requirement to do so. Instead, the requirement is to make very difficult decisions correctly in the timespan of a few days. Therefore the two situations have nothing to do with each other.

[StalingradK]

You keep saying “I” said everything, when this guy name Russ did. I just merely gave the info to you and tried to explain it when you object it. And honestly, you sound like a guy who likes to try to give out his information, then try to make what you said what I said… I’m still puzzled how that works… AND WHY WON’T THIS TOPIC DIE? I thought it was over 4 pages ago.

[mike_M]

@StalingradK

The following was not written by myself, but someone I share an intrest with.

Republicans. They are liars and manipulators. Homophobes. Republicans are the party of discrimination and segregation.

Nice cut and paste Commrad Stalingrad. This is just more liberal garbage from the left winged communist branch of the democratic party. You guys are just plain pityful. Guess what. Bush will serve out his term, the off year elections next year will see even a bigger loss for democratic candidates for national office and the demos will lose again in 08 because they can’t understand why most Americans don’t like socialistic ideals. I want you guys to continue to spew your hate and venom. It only attracts more to the Republican party and drives those decent Americans away from the demos. Keep it up Stalingrad :o
You guys will support anything that is against Bush and the conservative political movement, even if that means supporting radical muslims, communist or hillary. They are so filled with hate towards the Republicans and Bush they will support anything that appears to make conservatives look bad, even if it is against what is good for America. In their minds America is the evil one because the current federal and most state governments are not liberal, therefore not enlightened, therefore should be done away with.

[Firefly]

LOL, although not qualified to be involved in your little argument here, I doo love the way that anyone who isnt as right wing as Hill-billy-bob is instantly labelled a Communist.

Its soooooo funny, I wonder what you would make of Tommy Sheridan!

http://www.geo.ed.ac.uk/scotgaz/people/famousfirst1501.html

[mike_M]

@pdf27

I’m neither a Republican or in America (in fact, if you listen to Tin Breeches I’m a fully paid-up anti-American member of the Brit Thug Gang).

:lol: :lol: I dont think that pdf…Nice post’s

[Crab_to_be]

@mike_M

You guys will support anything that is against Bush and the conservative political movement, even if that means supporting radical muslims, communist or hillary.

Isn’t that going a bit far? I mean, who would seriously support- in this day and age, with all that’s going on in and out of the USA - Hillary Clinton? That’s just daft

[StalingradK]

Mike, the only reason people don’t like the Democratic party is greed… Pure Fruggin Greed. Look at yourself I DON’T WANT TO PAY TAXES, you whine so much about that, and it seems it’s the only thing that makes you feel good about your party. The day America falls is the day no Democrats are left… Think about it.

You also saw we will say anything to hate Republicans, I can stand republicans to an extent, but Bush made me loose my mind. Look at history, the country is always at a loss with a Republican candidate, and is always at a gain with a democrat. The fact is Democrats are better at running a country, Republicans are better at small posistions under being a Governor. Give a Republican too much power, and he’ll take away everything, as shown by Bush and past Right-Winged presidents, and not just presidents, but by Governors. Like the current Governor has screwed my state over more than Tommy Lee could Pamala Anderson. OHhhhhhhh, that’s right… I went there…

“You guys will support anything that is against Bush and the conservative political movement, even if that means supporting radical muslims, communist or hillary” Yeah, sure, crazy small minded Republican.

[pdf27]

@StalingradK

Look at yourself I DON’T WANT TO PAY TAXES, you whine so much about that, and it seems it’s the only thing that makes you feel good about your party.

Umm… there is a trade-off between levels of taxation/redistribution of wealth and economic growth. Since even the poorest in the US live in better conditions than the rich in most of Africa, I would suggest that attempts to encourage economic growth can easily be motivated out of concern for the poor rather than greed.

@StalingradK

You also saw we will say anything to hate Republicans, I can stand republicans to an extent, but Bush made me loose my mind.

That much is readily apparent.

@StalingradK

Look at history, the country is always at a loss with a Republican candidate, and is always at a gain with a democrat.

Ahem. Eisenhower and Reagan clearly represent the apogee of US power and influence in this century. Kennedy and Johnson made some chronically awful decisions (particularly those relating to employing Robert S. Macnamara and Ramsey Macdonald - both of whom may as well have been working for the Soviets, as their actions could practically have been scripted in Moscow). There have been failed presidents from both parties, and generalisations like that are all the more dumb for being easily disproved.

@StalingradK

Give a Republican too much power, and he’ll take away everything, as shown by Bush and past Right-Winged presidents,

Again, I suggest you learn a little more of your own history. The president who took the most away from the American people in terms of freedom and/or property was Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Who was of course a Democrat. Many of the provisions of the NRA make Bush look libertarian.

Please back your posts up with far more resembling facts in future - it’s rather depressing when I as an Englishman with no formal training in history whatsoever can at a glance see your posts are so full of holes historically that they make a sieve look watertight.

[mike_M]

@StalingradK

Mike, the only reason people don’t like the Democratic party is greed… Pure Fruggin Greed. Look at yourself I DON’T WANT TO PAY TAXES, you whine so much about that, and it seems it’s the only thing that makes you feel good about your party. The day America falls is the day no Democrats are left… Think about it.

Comrade Stalingrad…I never said I don’t want to pay any taxes, please show me where I did say that. I understand it takes taxes to run a country, IM just tired of the democrats wanting more and more of my money, IM paying 33% now how much more do you think I should pay?
Lets look at New Orleans, that city has been under democrat control for Lord knows how long. Major destitution, poverty, unemployment, crime, they are going on 3rd generation welfare in that state all under the leadership of the Democrats. You think they did a good job there??
You my young angry friend know nothing about paying taxes and don’t give me that bullshit story about helping your Doctor mother pay hers.

[Firefly]

@mike_M

[quote=StalingradK]Mike, the only reason people don’t like the Democratic party is greed… Pure Fruggin Greed. Look at yourself I DON’T WANT TO PAY TAXES, you whine so much about that, and it seems it’s the only thing that makes you feel good about your party. The day America falls is the day no Democrats are left… Think about it.

Comrade Stalingrad…I never said I don’t want to pay any taxes, please show me where I did say that. I understand it takes taxes to run a country, IM just tired of the democrats wanting more and more of my money, IM paying 33% now how much more do you think I should pay?
Lets look at New Orleans, that city has been under democrat control for Lord knows how long. Major destitution, poverty, unemployment, crime, they are going on 3rd generation welfare in that state all under the leadership of the Democrats. You think they did a good job there??
You my young angry friend know nothing about paying taxes and don’t give me that bullshit story about helping your Doctor mother pay hers.[/quote]

LOL, why do you guys do that? A US democrat is so far to the right of a communist that they might meet in the middle.

To a true socialist (not even communist there), the US democratic Party is something akin to the Nazi party. I love this stuff, keep it up…

WW2IC, what the hell…

As an interesting aside Mike, you really should register here (maybe you have) try a real life political forum to get it all out!

http://www.politicalcrossfire.com/forum/index.php

Looks much more up your street, more adults etc, less 16 year olds to dominate.

And quite a few Libertarians - go on join, I dare you, and see you in there… see if we can guess who we are, could be fun…

Ff

Editted to add, this may read like Im saying Im a true socialist. Nothing could be farther etc… Im a realist, I think

[mike_M]

Your right Firefly…its just when stalingrad post such lies and distorts the truth, I feel I must reply. I dont reply to changed his brainwashed mind, but to inform other members from other countries that what he spews is outright spin…

@StalingradK

Republicans. They are liars and manipulators. they’re nothing but the Taliban reborn.

I am really surprised there are not more people insulted by this post. :shock:

[Bladensburg]

It’s a little extreme perhaps but there is no denying that fundamentalist religion (with the emphasis on 'mentalist) is having ever greater influence on Republican policy.