The Balkan War Thread

Site Issues 2008 Archive Room
#61

And yet he might be a naive little boy, who did not notice an obvious things;)

Oh common Nick the whole NATO is just a puppet organisation of USA - we all know it :slight_smile:
Especially me and mr Kato who studied the Soviet school cource very well in its time:)
The NATO is fully subordinated to Washington, and no one operation will not start without sanction from Pentagon.
I don’t actually know ( and Europe don’t know ) why we need the one more danger muslin state in Balkans - Kosovo.
However the Americans persist on it…
One more military base for NATO in Kosovo look like the “good” reason:shock:

#62

I thought we had already established that? :wink:

#63

Not just in Ukraine Nick…
The USA officially supports all sorts of nationalist since Poland - till the Baltick states.
This is a very simple political stategy - the Americans will support separatism EVERYWHERE exept in the American continent:)
Their “help” has come to the situation when the Waffen SS openly march in Estonia:shock:
ANd the anti-russian propoganda began to transform into the amti-semitic one:)
This situation are tupical for Western Ukraine ( in fact the “Orange populists” are sponsored and PRed but State Department and CIA particulary).
So mr Kato is a bit incorrect here too;)
The CIA not just used the Ukrainians Nationalists but growed them up with success…
But this success could turn agains America:) You could be convinced of it in example of mr Kato:)
This is very danger game indeed. You might see how the situation can turn out of control.
The additional problem is that USA is too far from Europe- but we will live here and feel any troubles on our own skin.
The characher of cynical American POLICY have been clearly demonstatated in Georgia recently.
The domestic dictator, installed and supported by CIA pull the Georgia into the new bloody conflict with Abhazia.
The most funny is the to the contast of Servbia , where the USA support the separatists, in Georgia- they supports the tupical imperialists ( who want all of neighbourd lands).

#64

What had we established exactly my friend?:slight_smile:

#65

[QUOTE=Chevan;123984]Not just in Ukraine Nick…
The USA officially supports all sorts of nationalist since Poland - till the Baltick states.
This is a very simple political stategy - the Americans will support separatism EVERYWHERE exept in the American continent:)

It supports both separatism in one states and the unity or integrity of other states in accordance to its interests. I have already mentioned the fact that
elder Bush urged Ukraine to remain within the USSR in his speech in the parliament of Soviet Ukraine in Kiev in 1990. Of course this fact is not mentioned int the Russian Mass Media. Actually Americans did not want and did not support the disintegration of the USSR. The US refused to recognize Ukrainian sovereignty till 1993, others countries did it in 1991.

ANd the anti-russian propoganda began to transform into the amti-semitic one:)

Anti-Russian sentiments in Ukraine are aroused by the Russian Mass Medias controlled by the Kremlin. There are no needs in anti-Russian propaganda made in Ukraine, as a Ukrainian can just watch Russian news or program about Ukraine related issues broadcasting in the Russian Federation and he will be immediately overwhelmed with anti-Russian sentiments and disgust. There are no better "anti-russian propoganda’ than the one made by the Russian Medias themselves.

You mean many semetic oligarchs behind the orange and blue parties in Ukraine and the main ally of jews the US governements with CIA started anti-semitic propaganda. Very clever.

This situation are tupical for Western Ukraine ( in fact the “Orange populists” are sponsored and PRed but State Department and CIA particulary).
So mr Kato is a bit incorrect here too;)

I repeat Orange populists had much more than enough financial resources to fund
such a trifle like the PR campaign called “orange revolution”. The statement that they could not finance it without american involvement does not hold any water.
According to Forbes Ukrainain oligarchs are the richest in Europe after the Russian ones.

The CIA not just used the Ukrainians Nationalists but growed them up with success…

It is the coverage in Russian Medias that paints the orange populists as Ukrainain nationalists. But it is simply absurd. Who are nationalists? The party of semi-jew semi-Russian Timoshenko that has been admitted to the Socialistic International. Or the Party of Yushchenko that is the member of Pan-Europen social-democratic People’s Party that had the largest fraction in the parliament of the EU.

Moscow plays up American propagada on its side to keep the existing world order.

The characher of cynical American POLICY have been clearly demonstatated in Georgia recently.
The domestic dictator, installed and supported by CIA pull the Georgia into the new bloody conflict with Abhazia

The most funny is the to the contast of Servbia , where the USA support the separatists, in Georgia- they supports the tupical imperialists ( who want all of neighbourd lands).

Imerialsits? Abhasia is the part of Georgia as the rest of the world and even the Russian Federation have never recognised Abhasia as a sovereign state.

If Washington had really supported Georgia Abhazia would have been returned to Georgia long ago. The US and the RF use the Georgian-Abhazian issue for their PR policy. It is the only case where Moscow can show its “power” to support the PR image of of “world superpower” in the eyes of its citizens. The US realises the Moscow’s PR needs and played them up.

I don’t see any grounds for ordinary Slavs in the RF support Abhazia. Before the conflict there were 600000 inhabitants, 300000 of them were Georgians, 120000 Russians, Ukrainains, 120000- 140000 Abhazians. Today Georgians and Russians are refuges who can’t return to their homes in Abhazia. The regular Russain troops waged war on behalf of Abhazians and Russians are the refuges just like local Georgians when Abhazia has the regime advocated by Moscow.

#66

Pogrom is a Slavic word. It means some spontaneous inter-ethnic riots often with the devastation of private property. Obviously jews attached some additional meaning to it in English to emphasize their “sufferings” caused by local Slavs in Slavic countries.

#67

Um, firstly, what’s with the bold text?

It wasn’t “academics” that “lied.” It’s was politicians that didn’t care whether we had any real evidence, they just assumed…

Clinton lied while testifying under oath about Monika’s blow job. It was a criminal offence to lie under oath but he did not have any consequences for him.

Actually, he didn’t. The legal definition of sex given by Ken Starr prior to testimony was a strict one of vaginal sexual intercourse, and not oral. So, technically in legalistic terms, he didn’t “lie.”

But of course --he did in spirit…

But your point is again?

Clinton “lied” about sexual relations and Milosevic exploiting nationalism to enable the murder of thousands in comparable how?

How many girls did Milosevic screw in his tenure? Was his private life opened up in a $40-million witch-hunt that turned out to have nothing to do with its original mandate?

How many Bosnian women were raped in the Serb onslaught of ethnic cleansing supported my the Milosevic regime? Is this really a compare and contrast of despotism, morality, and corruption?

And such patented liars, pieces of **** from the American government and society decide what is right or wrong for others, impose their shitocratic rules and values on others, invade foreign states under entirely slanderous excuses.[/b]

Oh, this is just priceless! :smiley:

What I’ve missed!

#68

Thanks for repeating the lie again. But NATO wasn’t bombing villages. They were hitting Serb ground forces mostly…

Good luck with the propaganda angle though. :slight_smile:

#69

Nice selective reading:

the same source

War crimes

Before the end of the bombing, Yugoslav President Slobodan Milošević, along with Milan Milutinović, Nikola Šainović, Dragoljub Ojdanić and Vlajko Stojiljković were charged by the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia (ICTY) with crimes against humanity including murder, forcible transfer, deportation and “persecution on political, racial or religious grounds”.

Further indictments were leveled in October 2003 against former armed forces chief of staff Nebojša Pavković, former army corps commander Vladimir Lazarević, former police official Vlastimir Đorđević and the current head of Serbia’s public security, Sreten Lukić. All were indicted for crimes against humanity and violations of the laws or customs of war.

The ICTY also leveled indictments against KLA members Fatmir Limaj, Haradin Bala, Isak Musliu and Agim Murtezi, indicted for crimes against humanity. They were arrested on February 17–18, 2003. Charges were soon dropped against Agim Murtezi as a case of mistaken identity, whereas Fatmir Limaj was acquitted of all charges on 30 November 2005 and released. The charges were in relation to the prison camp run by the defendants at Lapusnik between May and July 1998.

War crimes prosecutions have also been carried out in Yugoslavia. Yugoslav soldier Ivan Nikolić was found guilty in 2002 of war crimes in the deaths of two civilians in Kosovo. A significant number of Yugoslav soldiers were tried by Yugoslav military tribunals during the war.

On March 2005, a U.N. tribunal indicted Kosovo Prime Minister Ramush Haradinaj for war crimes against the Serbs, on March 8 he tendered his resignation. Haradinaj, an ethnic Albanian, was a former commander who led units of the Kosovo Liberation Army and was appointed Prime Minister after winning an election of 72 votes to three in the Kosovo’s Parliament in December 2004.

The Serbian government and a number of international pressure groups claimed that NATO had carried out war crimes during the conflict, particularly regarding the bombing of alleged dual-use facilities such as the Serbian TV headquarters in Belgrade. The ICTY conducted an inquiry into these charges.[58] The tribunal has proclaimed that it has no mandate to press charges against NATO for war crimes against civilian population.

In 2008, Carla Del Ponte published a book in which she collected extensive evidence that right after the end of the war in 1999, Kosovo Albanians were smuggling organs of hundreds of Serbians from the province to Albania.[59] But the ICTY has found no “substantial element” to support Del Ponte’s charges.[60]

I never said the KLA nor Kosovars were blameless nor that they didn’t have corrupt or criminal elements. But their atrocities were paled by the mass exodus of Kosovars under the massacres by Serb forces…

KLA members were also indicted. And the Serb civilians and refugees are regrettable, but also inevitable in a state of lawless terror…

#70

Oh, a Russian site! Firstly, don’t you hate Russians?

I bet, without reading, that these same sites deny the Ukrainian holomodor?

#71

Because Bush is an asshole, and so is Putin. They both have anti-democratic tendancies…

And neither really listens to “academics and experts.”

And please tell me exactly who “falsified reports” about WMDs in Iraq!

And again, Clinton didn’t “lie under oath” --technically.

#72

Of course. I agree. But it was NATO countries under the UN whose forces were being murdered and/or embarrassed by the Serb militias. Notably Canada and the Netherlands. It was also the embarrassment of Europe standing by while another ethnic holocaust was taking place that ultimately prompted the action.

The Serb forces ultimately brought this on themselves by openly attacking UN forces, then abducting NATO peacekeepers and holding them hostage. What would you think would happen?

#73

Touche’. Watch out for hypocrisies…

Oh common Nick the whole NATO is just a puppet organisation of USA - we all know it :slight_smile:

A pretty cad generalization and simplistic notion…

If NATO is a “puppet,” then why does the US not force European nations to pay the same percentage of their GNPs on defense that the US does? Why does it not use NATO troops in Iraq?

Especially me and mr Kato who studied the Soviet school cource very well in its time:)
The NATO is fully subordinated to Washington, and no one operation will not start without sanction from Pentagon.

Then again, why are French and German forces not fighting in Iraq? They’re our “puppets!”

I don’t actually know ( and Europe don’t know ) why we need the one more danger muslin state in Balkans - Kosovo.

How is Kosovo a “dangerous” Muslim state?

However the Americans persist on it…
One more military base for NATO in Kosovo look like the “good” reason:shock:

Well, if it’s a NATO base, then you’ve no reason to fear the “Muslims.” Right?

#74

Such kind words! I’m blushing!

BTW, in some quarters I am an American-hater, liberal! To think I am biased and American!

#75

Oh too think that countries would not want to live under the benevolence of Russian imperialism!

Ungrateful little pricks!

Damn Yankees!

This is a very simple political stategy - the Americans will support separatism EVERYWHERE exept in the American continent:)

Where would Americans support “separatism” on the American continent?

Their “help” has come to the situation when the Waffen SS openly march in Estonia:shock:

Yeah, because far-right nationalists never march in Moscow… :rolleyes:

Fringe extremists should always define a nation… :evil:

ANd the anti-russian propoganda began to transform into the amti-semitic one:)
This situation are tupical for Western Ukraine ( in fact the “Orange populists” are sponsored and PRed but State Department and CIA particulary).
So mr Kato is a bit incorrect here too;)

They weren’t ‘sponsored’ anymore than the SVR supported pro-Russian parties…

The CIA not just used the Ukrainians Nationalists but growed them up with success…
But this success could turn agains America:) You could be convinced of it in example of mr Kato:)

This is very danger game indeed. You might see how the situation can turn out of control.
The additional problem is that USA is too far from Europe- but we will live here and feel any troubles on our own skin.

I guess only Russian nationalists should rule the Ukraine then?

The characher of cynical American POLICY have been clearly demonstatated in Georgia recently.
The domestic dictator, installed and supported by CIA pull the Georgia into the new bloody conflict with Abhazia.

LOL He’s a “dictator” now because he’s no longer subservant to Russian dictates?

BTW, he was democratically elected in a free and fare election…

The most funny is the to the contast of Servbia , where the USA support the separatists, in Georgia- they supports the tupical imperialists ( who want all of neighbourd lands).

Wow. I guess everyone should just revolve around the dictates of Mother Russia and not those evil CIA puppets, eh?

#76

Why do you think that the PR policy of the federal government in Moscow is shared and supported by everyone in the Russian Federation?

Lots of Russians joined Ukrainian nationalists and fought against Bolsheviks vindicating the interests of the Ukrainian nation, most of Russians in Ukraine voted for its independence in 1991.

#77

Oh Nick, most of countries did not live under “Russian imperialism” since 1991.
Having the cheep russian gas ,till the 2004.
Ukraine since mid 1990-yy had the partnership with NATO.
And nobody in russia determine how to live them . They were fully independent.

Where would Americans support “separatism” on the American continent?

Local indians. You suppressd their national movenment very well

Yeah, because far-right nationalists never march in Moscow… :rolleyes:

Fringe extremists should always define a nation… :evil:

Far-right nationalist march even in Washington.
But neither in USA nor in Russian the Ultra-nationalist don’t play the essential role.
To the contrast with Ukraine, Baltick states and ets.

They weren’t ‘sponsored’ anymore than the SVR supported pro-Russian parties…

they were sponsorred MUCH MUCH more .
The whole world PR company had been started.
Don’t compare the abilities of USA and Russia.

I guess only Russian nationalists should rule the Ukraine then?

Where have you seen the Russian nationalist in Ukraine…?

LOL He’s a “dictator” now because he’s no longer subservant to Russian dictates?

No he is actual dictator due his methods of rulling and suppression of opposition.

BTW, he was democratically elected in a free and fare election…

Ha aha ha .
“Democratic elected” idiot with 95% of votes:)
Tell better this fary tell for Kato - he know taste with “Mass media democraty” :slight_smile:
Even the Famouse Belorussian dictator Lukashenko had ONLY 70%:slight_smile:

Wow. I guess everyone should just revolve around the dictates of Mother Russia and not those evil CIA puppets, eh?

Oh sorry Nick … a bad Chevan…
Noway.
The everyone should revolve around Washington and CIA , including the Mother Russia:)
So better?

#78

Ahhhh…

Now we’re getting into interesting territory…

I really don’t know the answer to this question, but it is one that interests me…

At what point do they stop being Russians? Are they still “Russians” or are they Ukrainians of Russian ethnic stock?

#79

Oh pissed Nick…i will watch it:)

If NATO is a “puppet,” then why does the US not force European nations to pay the same percentage of their GNPs on defense that the US does? Why does it not use NATO troops in Iraq?

Becouse this is puppet, but not the inner american organisation right?

Then again, why are French and German forces not fighting in Iraq? They’re our “puppets!”

Well may be becouse GErmany and France still have a PRIDE to ask - what to hell the they will do in Iraq?
At the same time the most of others supports this adventure UNDOUBTELY

How is Kosovo a “dangerous” Muslim state?

See a Kato posts above …
The Narco traffic, the muslim extremists and ets…

Well, if it’s a NATO base, then you’ve no reason to fear the “Muslims.” Right?

Not muslims but the Muslim Extremists ( who in fact the most of the kosovars are)
And if you think that the american base is the guaranty…
Just wathc to Iraq now- this is most danger place for living today although there a lot of American troops.

#80

Don’t tell a fary tels.
there a lot of cases of suppression of Russians in Ukraine.Especially in Western Ukraine recently.
In Lviv the russian speech are not welcomed at all.