The Budapest Siege

[Egorka]

@Chevan

Hello mate. I’m glad you’ve back.
that’s what i’m talking about. The short time of 1-3 days since the beginning of occupation ( i.e. end of combat) can’t imply the full replacement of troops. So the troops definitelly were the same. You can’t move entire army out of city within such a time.

I salyte you, Andrey!!!
The aforementioned could happen during the offensives when troups woupd swiftly move across. So it could be that on the 2nd or 3rd day the second echelon or rear areas troups moved in.

No i dont know a story. Tell us please:)

Oh, it is part of the known SWISS LEGATION REPORT OF THE RUSSIAN INVASION OF HUNGARY IN THE SPRING OF 1945.
http://www.hungarianhistory.com/lib/montgo/montgo21.htm
“Cases have been reported where Russian women serving in the Red army or in the Russian police force have been guilty of rape. Men have been beaten up by such women for not having submitted themselves to their wishes.”

[Chevan]

@schweinehund

We do not have to forget the Comissars, who were behind both lines: behind the first attacking lines they simply shot their own soldiers who were turning back and in the 2nd wave they “forced” the soldiers for 2-3 days free looting, raping and other barbarian activities.

Jew-comissars , forced the soldiers to rape and kill , might be astrong argument for ww2-era axis civils to dislike the red army.But still not quite clear why the soldiers of first-line should turn back , knowing that the the after the battle they will allowed to enjoy the sex and vodka as much as they dream. Seems the red army soldiers , if to believe to testimonies, should eagered to fight for enemy females and booty faster then their commisars run behind them.

[schweinehund]

Hi Chevan,

“But still not quite clear why the soldiers of first-line should turn back”
According also to witness reports there were masses of these first line warriors withour guns. They were told “Go and pick up the rifle of a fallen one!” If they turned back they were machinegunned to death. These un-armed soldiers were punished this way for political reasons, sabotage, etc.
As far as I remember they got their 0,5 liter vodka before the attack.

[Egorka]

@schweinehund

Hi Chevan,

“But still not quite clear why the soldiers of first-line should turn back”
According also to witness reports there were masses of these first line warriors withour guns. They were told “Go and pick up the rifle of a fallen one!” If they turned back they were machinegunned to death.
As far as I remember they got their 0,5 liter vodka before the attack.

Stop it! If you keep doing it I will be fired from my job for laughing loudly and disturbing the office… Have mercy!

[Egorka]

@Chevan

Seems the red army soldiers , if to believe to testimonies, should eagered to fight for enemy females and booty faster then their commisars run behind them.

But don’t forget that all Soviet Commisars were world champions in both sprint and marathon running. So they could easily outrun any front-line soldier. In fact some Commissars had to fill their pockets with stones (obviously stolen from the foreign soil) in order to slow them self down. Otherwise they would out run the front-line.
So I see no contradiction here what so ever!!!

[Egorka]

@imi,

You have quoted lots of accounts and statements.
Unfortunately none of them are referenced! How come?
Or did I miss something?

[schweinehund]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shtrafbat

[Chevan]

@Egorka

I salyte you, Andrey!!!
The aforementioned could happen during the offensives when troups woupd swiftly move across. So it could be that on the 2nd or 3rd day the second echelon or rear areas troups moved in.

Yes but the so second echelon is just an reinforcement of first one in this case.The advancing army had ( if it was possible) the reserve who operatively joined the battle during the offencive. There never were the separate echelons\waves who just resting and enjoing behind the vanguard.

Oh, it is part of the known SWISS LEGATION REPORT OF THE RUSSIAN INVASION OF HUNGARY IN THE SPRING OF 1945.
http://www.hungarianhistory.com/lib/montgo/montgo21.htm
“Cases have been reported where Russian women serving in the Red army or in the Russian police force have been guilty of rape. Men have been beaten up by such women for not having submitted themselves to their wishes.”

Damn, the man didn’t wish to make a pleasure for Russian nurse or politic commisar? How he dared:)

[Chevan]

@schweinehund

Hi Chevan,

“But still not quite clear why the soldiers of first-line should turn back”
According also to witness reports there were masses of these first line warriors withour guns. They were told “Go and pick up the rifle of a fallen one!” If they turned back they were machinegunned to death. These un-armed soldiers were punished this way for political reasons, sabotage, etc.
As far as I remember they got their 0,5 liter vodka before the attack.

Have you ever tryed to drink the 0,5 littre of vodka at one time, sir?

[schweinehund]

Not vodka, but I did try it with whisky once, Sir… ;]

Anyway I was not saying that they drunk it in one, they just got that - the dosage was up to them.

[Chevan]

@Egorka

But don’t forget that all Soviet Commisars were world champions in both sprint and marathon running. So they could easily outrun any front-line soldier. In fact some Commissars had to fill their pockets with stones (obviously stolen from the foreign soil) in order to slow them self down. Otherwise they would out run the front-line.
So I see no contradiction here what so ever!!!

No contraductions here. No need to be a champ in anything to catch a drunkard after 0,5 litters of vodka.

[Chevan]

@schweinehund

Not vodka, but I did try it with whisky once, Sir… ;]

How did you feel?Wished to rape somebody or steal anything?

Anyway I was not saying that they drunk it in one, they just got that - the dosage was up to them.

You mean they got it per year?or per battle?

[schweinehund]

No, I simply collapsed, but I can only repeat myself:

I was not saying that they did drink the 0,5l vodka in one.

But I know people who can drink 0,5 l vodka without any effect, especially who drink that instead of water since age 5.

[schweinehund]

The sources are not saying the same, but if there was enough supply per battle.
The linked Wiki article is also referring this.

[schweinehund]

The sources are not saying the same, but if there was enough supply per battle.
The linked Wiki article is also referring this.

[Chevan]

@schweinehund

No, I simply collapsed, but I can only repeat myself:

I was not saying that they did drink the 0,5l vodka in one.

But I know people who can drink 0,5 l vodka without any effect, especially who drink that instead of water since age 5.

So why do you think the vodka would have an essential effect on russian soldiers before the attack? Do you have an witness of it?

According also to witness reports there were masses of these first line warriors withour guns. They were told “Go and pick up the rifle of a fallen one!” If they turned back they were machinegunned to death.

If the the first line unit were unarmed - how by your mind they have won the battle for Hungary?I’m not a scrupulous - i just want to know the whole pucture. You practically has wrote that Hungarian-german forces have been defeated by the unarmed Russian army.How might it happend?

[Chevan]

@schweinehund

The sources are not saying the same, but if there was enough supply per battle.

But “enough” is a relative concept for everybody. Maybe they got 0,5 littres for battalion, how do we know unless it nowhere specified?

[schweinehund]

Read the Wiki article and its external links

[Chevan]

Which exactly the links?

[Egorka]

@Chevan

Yes but the so second echelon is just an reinforcement of first one in this case.The advancing army had ( if it was possible) the reserve who operatively joined the battle during the offencive. There never were the separate echelons\waves who just resting and enjoing behind the vanguard.

I am talking of rear troops (тыловые соединения) which were not involved directly in combat. And that is what they also mean here by saying that combat troops were no bad, but the rear troops were raping and pillaging as they had nothing better to do.

In an offensive where distances covered during 1 day could be tens and tens of kilometers, the front line troops would pass right through and the rear area troops enter the same day or so.