The islam menace.

Off-Topic Off Topic
#61

Oh btw. Nick, I just read an interview of Remi Brague with a german newspaper. According to him, not a single translation of the ancient greek and roman texts was made by a muslim.
And also something I didn’t know. The muslim world had COMPLETELY forgotten about the crusades until in the nineteenth century when a french guy named Joseph François Michaud had his story from the crusades translated into arabic. The translator had to invent the words crusade and crusader in that language.
So far for your “historic memory” theory.

http://diepresse.com/home/kultur/news/378506/index.do?_vl_backlink=/home/index.do

I know it’s in german, but maybe you can babelfish it or sth. It’s an interesting read.

#62

Just shooting from the hip, but food production here in the United States shouldn’t be a problem with a shrinking population (and fewer mouths to feed). The actual percentage of the population involved in agriculture has been on the decline for decades as farms became larger (with many being absorbed by large commercial enterprises).

Social Security is another issue. IIRC, taxes paid by illegal workers from Mexico is floating it to some extent. But how much of that is offset by the increased strain on social services by those same illegal workers (welfare, hospitals, jails, etc.). The large and aging “baby boomer” generation will eventually go the way of the “greatest” (WWII) generation and die out. (Again, I’m just shooting from the hip).

On taxes:

(posted March 9th, 2006 at 1:12 am)
http://patrick.net/wp/?page_id=92

Here are stats from IRS.gov

The top 1 percent of tax payers paid, 34.27 percent of federal income tax revenues.

The top 10 percent of tax payers paid 65.84 percent, or 2/3 of all taxes

The top 25 percent pay 83.5% of all taxes

The next 25 percent share 12.5% of the total tax burden for a total of 96%

The bottom half of America (the poor and disadvantaged that you refer to Patrick) how much of the tax burden do they share? (they make less then 26,000 a year)

3.5%

also: http://www.reason.com/blog/show/113403.html

I seem to remember a French plan in the works that would offer cash incentives to Muslim immigrants to return to their countries of origin.

I think you have a point with your last statement:

#63

Today is Anzac Day, the day Australians remember our men and women who served and died in many wars.

I saw a Muslim woman, probably from the Horn of Africa, in the semi-full gear of flowing black robes and hijab covering everything except her face and hands.

She had what was obviously her daughter with her, a girl about seven or eight in a pink tracksuit who was largely indistinguishable from any other Aussie kid.

The girl was happily waving our national flag, as many people do on this day.

Her mother looked on approvingly, with a big smile.

I didn’t see anything menacing, Islamic or otherwise, in any of that. Judged on that brief moment, the mother looked like about the ideal migrant to me, making an enormous leap to allow her daughter to participate in a culture entirely alien to hers in a country nothing like the one she came from. I don’t see why we can’t try to take a few steps to meet her. I don’t care if her daughter follows her into ritual dress when she’s older, or if they build and attend mosques, or do anything else that isn’t part of our dominant Anglo culture (which has been steadily diluted and broadened and generally improved by various waves of non-Anglo migration) as long as they accept my nation’s basic values.

One of which is the right to practise any religion you like, or to be agnostic or athetist. The facts that I think Islam is a stupid and primitive religion and even more stupid and primitive than most major religions (Here comes a fucking fatwa from some arsehole imam sentencing me to death, which proves my point!), and that I despise among other things the way it treats women and the way most of its women remain servile and that the hijab is an intellectual red rag to me, is irrelevant.

The moral purpose of the last world war, and the Cold War, was to preserve the right to be as stupid and primitive as you like as long as it’s not a criminal offence. Without that, we couln’t have had Woodstock and the Age of Aquarius, not to mention the Sex Pistols. If we could accommodate that, we can acccommodate the bulk of Muslims who pose rather less of a threat to the established order than Joan Baez and Sid Vicious

We should embrace people like the mother I saw today and make them welcome while allowing them the right to practise their own religion. Doing so can only reinforce their acceptance of their new land.

If we don’t, and if we lump them all under the meaningless label of ‘Muslim’ which supposedly equals a threat to our society, in the same way it’s been done with negroes and Jews and various others whose supposed inferiority allowed the dominant society to treat them badly in various countries, we shall create a much bigger Islamic menace in our own communities by demonising and discriminating against them.

But when that menace is created whose fault will that be? And who deserves to bear the consequences of treating other human beings as lesser people when they’ve done nothing wrong and want nothing more than to live in peace in a tolerant community?

#64

One of which is the right to practise any religion you like, or to be agnostic or athetist. The facts that I think Islam is a stupid and primitive religion and even more stupid and primitive than most major religions (Here comes a fucking fatwa from some arsehole imam sentencing me to death, which proves my point!), and that I despise among other things the way it treats women and the way most of its women remain servile and that the hijab is an intellectual red rag to me, is irrelevant

Clap, clap , well said man, at last a phrase in wich I can 100 % fully agreed.

And the mother thing is a good example, but unfortunately in Europe, the most sensitive continent of this new “sarracen” invation, cases like that are very rare.

#65

I’ll try not to let that happen again. :smiley:

I take it that you’re agreeing with my opening sentence in the quote that everyone should be free to practise their own form of what I regard as religious delusion, including Islam, in a free society?

I don’t know about Europe, but I could find dozens of Aussies among people I know who’d share your view that Muslims here are as ‘bad’ as Muslims in Europe in that almost none want to become part of the host society and are even a threat to it. There’s many more here who’d have the same view. Unlike me who has almost daily contact with Muslims, most of them get their information about Muslims from the conservative news media which never let an opportunity pass for a sensationalist news story and which never, never, never would present the mother / daughter with the flag story I posted even if it happened in their bloody newsrooms or television studios.

The people here who see all Muslims as ‘bad’ are also the sort of people whose response to what I described would often be that the little girl had no right to be waving the flag because she wasn’t one of ‘us’. Or they’d see it as some sort of deceit. Because they are just prejudiced against Muslims and won’t allow that there are millions of decent people among them as there are among all other religions and races.

But at the same time we have had for some years a Turkish component in our national returned servicemen’s organisation and they march with our people on Anzac Day which commemorates the assault on Gallipoli in Turkey in 1915 http://www.awm.gov.au/commemoration/anzac/anzac_tradition.htm .

Kemal Ataturk, a Muslim who commanded the Turks brilliantly at Gallipoli, wrote in the mid 1930’s of our dead buried on his shore:

“Those heroes that shed their blood and lost their lives… You are now lying in the soil of a friendly country. Therefore rest in peace. There is no difference between the Johnnies and the Mehmets to us where they lie side by side now here in this country of ours… you, the mothers, who sent their sons from faraway countries wipe away your tears; your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace. After having lost their lives on this land. They have become our sons as well.”

And since then Turkey has cared for our war dead and every Anzac Day Turkey, an Islamic nation in the same way that Italy and Ireland and Spain used to be Catholic (courtesy of Ataturk making it a secular Islamic nation after WWI) hosts a memorial service attended by thousands of Australians as both a personal and national tribute http://youtube.com/watch?v=feKy9pth7hg .

I can’t think of a corresponding example of a Christian / Western nation to Muslim war dead, nor is there any prospect of it in Iraq or Afghanistan.

EDIT: Nor in Israel, which Drake earlier said was a Western nation.

If so, it’s the Western nation with the longest history of knocking off Muslims since WWII, with no sign of an apology to or even a modicum of respect for the Muslims it’s killed.

#66

I would sign this, the problem is, a huge part of the muslim immigrants here doesn’t do that (like I said more than 60% here). And not only here. Muslims refuse to acknowledge that the basic law (here in germany) and the human rights charta reigns supreme over the koran.
And therein lies the fundamental problem. Even the freest of societies cannot tolerate intolerance if it wishes to survive. Are you aware, that National Socialism included quite a lot elements from the ancient norse mythology. If I revived national socialism, called it a religion like scientology does call itself in the US and prayed the necessity of the masterrace to rule the earth and the other blabla you’d be OK with it???

#67

Exactly where are you getting the 60% figure is I may ask?

#68

I take it that you’re agreeing with my opening sentence in the quote

Yea, the word “phrase” is not correct, I mean I agree with the whole statement.

that everyone should be free to practise their own form of what I regard as religious delusion, including Islam, in a free society?

If is a very light variant of the Quran I have no problem, there is thousand of muslims in Argentina and we have zero problem with them, but of course is people that drink alcohol, there is no cover women in the streets, completely diferent kind.

#69

It was an inquiry made here in germany some time ago. They asked questions related to human rights, womens rights etc in the muslim community and the survey showed that ~15% had a very large distance and some 45% what they called medium distance to our basic law, meaning the 15% pretty much couldn’t care less about it and the ~45% cherrypicked what they liked and thought the rest shouldn’t apply to them.

#70

Good article in regard of Drake s post 65:

Multiculturalism ‘drives young Muslims to shun British values’

The doctrine of multi-culturalism has alienated an entire generation of young Muslims and made them increasingly radical, a report has found. In stark contrast with their parents, growing numbers sympathise with extreme teachings of Islam, with almost four in ten wanting to live under Sharia law in Britain.

The study identifies significant support for wearing the veil in public, Islamic schools and even punishment by death for Muslims who convert to another religion.

Most alarmingly, 13 per cent of young Muslims said they “admired” organisations such as Al Qaeda which are prepared to “fight the West”.

(And those little fuckers are sucking the big west tits like nobody else, Note of P.K )

The poll exposes a fracture between the attitudes of Muslims aged 16 to 24, most of whom were born in Britain, and those of their parents’ generation, who are more likely to have been immigrants. A report published alongside the poll, commissioned by the Right-wing think tank Policy Exchange and carried out by Populus, said the doctrine of multi-culturalism was at least partly responsible.

Full article here:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=432075&in_page_id=1770&ico=Homepage&icl=TabModule&icc=NEWS&ct=5

#71

No.

I think the difference between national socialism and a religion is that the former was obviously a political rather than religious movement with bits of ancient mythology added in. But don’t ask me how to defne the difference between a political and a religious movement where the political movement has a religious base in a recognised religion, like evangelical Christian politcal parties, because I can’t.

As for scientology, we effectively banned it here in the 1960’s by outlawing e-meters and all that rubbish, but it’s crept back.

Your question raises the issue of how do we define a religion. I don’t know. Scientology believes in aliens but so does Christianity, and what’s more the original and oldest continuing form of Christianity, Catholicism, believes in an alien sending his son to earth as a human after another alien impregnated his mother and then the son died as a human and went back to the extra-terrestial base where he’s one of three people in one. So while I think Christianity is a religion and scientology is nuts, it can be argued that scientology has the essential basis of Christianity in believing in aliens playing a role in human affairs so it must be a religion.

Similarly, by comparison with your national socialist example, Islam could be portrayed as a political movement and certainly in countries like Saudi Arabia where there is no distinction between the religion and government. Then again, the same was true of Christianity in the Holy Roman Empire until the Reformation, and of England until and after Henry VIII who replaced the Pope with the King of England as the head of the Christian church and ultimate head of government.

One difference between Christianity / the West and Islam is that Islam hasn’t had its reformation yet so for its rigid adherents it’s still stuck in the seventh century. Hence the inability to adapt to the West. Whether Islam is capable of a reformation is debatable, but given the various strands of Islam it’s a long way from being a fixed thing since its inception so a reformation to bring it into the modern era, in some branches at least, is possible.

But that then requires things like recognition of women as having equal rights with men (which after all wasn’t converted into action in the West until the last forty years or so) and so on. I don’t see that happening any time soon, although that’s perhaps more bound up in the ethnic traditions in the various Islamic societies where it’s hard to distinguish between what is Islamic and what is cultural, such as with so called honour killings which in places like Pakistan seem to be a popular male pasttime, but not as popular as so-called honour rapes (that must be the ultimate oxymoron). Oddly enough, I think one source for a reformation could be extraordinarily courageous Muslim women, such as those in Pakistan who are challenging honour killings and demanding proper justice be applied to offenders. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mukhtaran_Bibi

#72

Islamization occurs when there are sufficient Muslims in a country
to agitate for their so-called ‘religious rights.’

When politically correct and culturally diverse societies agree to
‘the reasonable’ Muslim demands for their ‘religious rights,’ they also
get the other components under the table.Here’s how it works
(percentages source CIA: The World Fact Book (2007)).

As long as the Muslim population remains around 1% of any given
country they will be regarded as a peace-loving minority and not as a
threat to anyone. In fact, they may be featured in articles and films,
stereotyped for their colorful uniqueness:

United States — Muslim 1.0%

Australia — Muslim 1.5%

Canada — Muslim 1.9%

China — Muslim 1%-2%

Italy — Muslim 1.5%

Norway — Muslim 1.8%

At 2% and 3% they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities
and disaffected groups with major recruiting from the jails and among
street gangs:

Denmark — Muslim 2%

Germany — Muslim 3.7%

United Kingdom — Muslim 2. 7%

Spain — Muslim 4%

Thailand — Muslim 4.6%

From 5% on they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to
their percentage of the population.

They will push for the introduction of halaal (clean by Islamic
standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims.
They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature it on
their shelves — along with threats for failure to comply. (United
States).

France — Muslim 8%

Philippines — Muslim 5%

Sweden — Muslim 5%

Switzerland — Muslim 4.3%

The Netherlands — Muslim 5.5%

Trinidad & Tobago — Muslim 5.8%

At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow
them to rule themselves under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate
goal of Islam is not to convert the world but to establish Sharia law
over the entire world.

When Muslims reach 10% of the population, they will increase
lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions (Paris —
car-burnings). Any non-Muslim action that offends Islam will result in
uprisings and threats (Amsterdam — Mohammed cartoons).

Guyana — Muslim 10%

India — Muslim 13.4%

Israel — Muslim 16%

Kenya — Muslim 10%

Russia — Muslim 10-15%

After reaching 20% expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia
formations, sporadic killings and church and synagogue burning:

Ethiopia — Muslim 32.8%

At 40% you will find widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks
and ongoing militia warfare:

Bosnia — Muslim 40%

Chad — Muslim 53.1%

Lebanon — Muslim 59.7%

From 60% you may expect unfettered persecution of non-believers and
other religions, sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia
Law as a weapon and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels:

Albania — Muslim 70%

Malaysia — Muslim 60.4%

Qatar — Muslim 77.5%

Sudan — Muslim 70%

After 80% expect State run ethnic cleansing and genocide:

Bangladesh — Muslim 83%

Egypt — Muslim 90%

Gaza — Muslim 98.7%

Indonesia — Muslim 86.1%

Iran — Muslim 98%

Iraq — Muslim 97%

Jordan — Muslim 92%

Morocco — Muslim 98.7%

Pakistan — Muslim 97%

Palestine — Muslim 99%

Syria — Muslim 90%

Tajikistan — Muslim 90%

Turkey — Muslim 99.8%

United Arab Emirates — Muslim 96%

100% will usher in the peace of ‘Dar-es-Salaam’ — the Isla mic House
of Peace — there’s supposed to be peace because everybody is a Muslim:

Afghanistan — Muslim 100%

Saudi Arabia — Muslim 100%

Somalia — Muslim 100%

Yemen — Muslim 99.9%

Of course, that’s not the case. To satisfy their blood lust, Muslims
then start killing each other for a variety of reasons.

It is good to remember that in many, many countries, such as France,
the Muslim populations are centered around ghettos based on their
ethnicity. Muslims do not integrate into the community at large.
Therefore, they exercise more power than their national average would
indicate.

Adapted from Dr. Peter Hammond’s book: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam:
The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat… www.frontline.org.za/bo
oks_videos/sti.htm

#73

He’s hardly a disinterested academic giving a balanced analysis.

He strikes me as just as much a religious warrior as the supposedly aggressive Muslims he pretends to analyse from his evangelical Christian narrowness.

I’d rank him and his type as about as dangerous to me and the tolerant society I support as the Muslim menace he reduces to meaningless percentages.

He also deserves nomination for the award for the most patently fucking ridiculous statement in the history of the planet:

When Muslims reach 10% of the population, they will increase
lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions (Paris —
car-burnings). Any non-Muslim action that offends Islam will result in
uprisings and threats (Amsterdam — Mohammed cartoons).

Israel — Muslim 16%

Gee! If only the Muslims in Israel didn’t get above 10%, there’d be no trouble there. :rolleyes: Well, the Zionists have been doing their best since 1948, and before, to make bloody sure that there weren’t any Muslims in Israel, so I guess that the (asserted by Hammond) fact that they still comprise 16% of the population shows that the Israel problem is all the fault of those Muslims who weren’t killed and driven out of Israel by the Zionists or coralled in the Gaza strip etc.

If Hammond’s figures are right, they also show that once a population reaches 84% Jews, then the Muslims are going to get the shit kicked out of them by the Jews.

His figures mean nothing. They are a statistical and intellectual farce. They tell us nothing about the reality of the different practices and experiences of Muslims in different non-Islamic societies. They reflect a Christian arrogance and intolerance that mirrors the Islamic arrogance and intolerance Hammond opposes from his evangelical Christian bunker.

Christians like him want to get a grip on themselves before slagging off other religions as aggressive or demanding or proselytising.

I’ve never had a Muslim, or Jew, knock on my door or accost me in the street trying to convert me to their form of temporal and eternal idiocy, but Christians of various arrogant forms think they have the right to do things like leaving Utah and barging up to my front door on the other side of the planet to try to convert me to their delusions, as do Jehovah’s Witnesses who’d force me to let my children die rather than have a blood transfusion and sundry other bible bashing, God bothering zealots who could learn a thing or two about courtesy and tolerance from Muslims, and Jews, I know.

Here’s a statistic Hammond didn’t include in his argument.

Number of nominally Christian nations attacked or invaded by Islamic nations since WWII: Nil

Number of Islamic nations attacked or invaded by nominally Christian nations since WWII:
Hard to say, given various post-WWII post-colonial exercises such as Algeria. Some clear attacks or invasions include Iraq (twice) and Afghanistan.

Applying Hammond’s intellecutal rigour and statistical method, that shows that nominally Christian nations are at least 300% more likely to attack Islamic nations than the other way around. Reversing those figures, Muslim nations pose no threat to nominal Christian nations. Which buggers up Hammond’s nonsensical statistical arguments.

INTRODUCING PETER HAMMOND

Peter was born in Cape Town (in 1960) and brought up in Bulawayo (in what was then war-torn Rhodesia - now Zimbabwe). He was converted to Christ in 1977, worked in Scripture Union and Hospital Christian Fellowship, served in the South African Defence Force and studied at Baptist Theological College, Cape Town. He also earned a Doctorate in Missiology and has been awarded an Honorary Doctorate in Divinity. Peter is married to Lenora, whose missionary parents Rev. Bill and Harriett Bathman have pioneered missionary work, mostly into Eastern Europe for over 55 years. Peter and Lenora have been blessed with 4 children: Andrea, Daniela, Christopher and Calvin.

For over 25 years, Dr. Peter Hammond has pioneered missionary outreaches, including into the war zones of Mozambique, Angola and Sudan. Often travelling by off road motorbike, Peter has travelled hundreds of thousands of kilometres to deliver Bibles to persecuted Christians in Africa and Eastern Europe. In the course of his missionary activities, Peter has been ambushed, come under aerial and artillery bombardments, been stabbed, shot at, beaten by mobs, arrested and imprisoned. In some mission trips he has flown far behind enemy lines to the Nuba Mountains in central Sudan with tons of Bibles, books and relief aid. He has walked throughout the war devastated Nuba Mountains showing the Jesus film in Arabic, proclaiming the Gospel, training pastors and evading enemy patrols.

Rev. Peter Hammond is the Founder and Director of Frontline Fellowship, the Founder and Chairman of Africa Christian Action, the Director of the Christian Action Network and Chairman of The Reformation Society. He is the author of Faith Under Fire In Sudan, Holocaust In Rwanda, In the Killing Fields of Mozambique, The Great Commission Manual, The Biblical Worldview Manual, Putting Feet To Your Faith, The Greatest Century of Missions, Biblical Principles For Africa, the Discipleship Handbook, Slavery, Terrorism and Islam - The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat and The Greatest Century of Reformation. He is also the Editor of both Frontline Fellowship News and the Christian Action magazine. He is also a Contributing-editor of JOY Magazine.

Peter has developed the Biblical Worldview Seminar and Great Commission Course to mobilise churches to comprehensively apply the Lordship of Christ to all areas of life.

Peter has a great love for history and for wildlife. He enjoys reading, particularly history and primary resource documents on the Reformation and missions. At the moment Peter is engaged in intensive research for a long-term project: A Christian History of Africa.

Along with his family, Peter enjoys hiking and mountain climbing and he’s involved in various animal welfare groups. He has been involved in rescuing and caring for a wide variety of wild and domestic animals including penguins.

Since 1995 Peter co-hosts a weekly radio programme, Salt and Light, on Radio Tygerberg in Cape Town. In his desire to apply the Lordship of Christ to all areas of life, Peter has been actively involved in numerous social issues. Since 1991 he has been vigorously promoting the Pro-Life cause in South Africa, initiating and mobilising the annual Life Chains, Sanctity Life Sunday and National Day of Repentance. He has mobilised numerous of marches to Parliament, including the Christian Voice marches in 1995 and 1996 which mobilised over 30 000 Christians in protest against the planned new secular state and its constitutional approval of abortion, pornography and other social evils. Peter has regularly been called upon to present submissions to various sub-committees at Parliament. He has co-authored, or contributed to, various books dealing with social issues in South Africa including: Fight For Life - A Pro-life Handbook for Southern Africa; Make a Difference - A Christian Action Handbook For Southern Africa; South Africa - Renaissance or Reformation?; Finding Freedom From The Pornography Plague and The Pink Agenda - Sexual Revolution and the Ruin of the Family In South Africa and Character Assassins - Dealing with Ecclesiastical Tyrants and Terrorists.

These books and campaigns have lead to numerous opportunities to present Biblical principles through newspaper articles and on national radio and television programmes.

Peter has a strong commitment to Christian education, having helped to promote Christian education and home schooling in South Africa for over 15 years. He and his wife Lenora home school their four children and help provide Christian school textbooks through their Christian Liberty Books ministry. Through his Textbooks For Teachers programme Peter has been providing thousands of Christian school textbooks to community Christian schools in Zambia and Sudan. Peter has also helped sponsor Bible colleges and Christian schools in Zambia and Sudan. He is involved in mobilising support for Christians suffering in Zimbabwe, and in providing tons of relief aid for the victims of communism in Zimbabwe.

Peter is regularly involved in personal and literature evangelism in the streets and in the townships. Since he was converted 30 years ago, Peter has maintained a regular practice of going in to some of the busiest, poorest and most neglected areas to conduct mass literature distribution, film evangelism and personal one-on-one evangelism and discipleship. In squatter camps, shanty towns, inner city ghettos, in bus and train stations, in prisons, military bases and hospitals, he has continued to engage in evangelism and discipleship.

He is a missionary member of Livingstone Fellowship. He is also a minister of the Episcopal Church of Sudan and Chairman of The Reformation Society.
http://www.frontline.org.za/about%20us/intro_peterh.htm

#74

To what extent do you think that that related to Islam or to their ethnic background?

If we asked Muslim men from the Sudan what they thought of Western men cooking meals for themselves, let alone their families, and they replied that cooking is women’s business and beneath men (as happened here when Sudanese men were expected to feed themselves http://www.theage.com.au/news/tv--radio/food-for-more-than-thought/2007/01/31/1169919344527.html# ), does that reflect an Islamic or ethnic viewpoint?

What percentage of the non-Muslim community cherry picks local laws, such as various moronic traffic laws here which dictate 20 km/p.h. below normal speed limits in school zones 24/7 all year round and nobody observes it because we all know it’s a bullshit law? I and almost every non-Muslim cherry pick there.

What percentage of the non-Muslim community really has attitudes that aren’t much different to the Muslim community’s in the German survey?

I’m wary of ‘surveys’. There was one run through a newspaper here about a dozen years ago by a neo-con state government attorney general. One question related to penalties for rape and gave florid examples of supposedly weak sentences. Nobody bothered to tell the semi-literate respondents who read that rag that rape had been re-defined by the legislature several years ealier to include penetration of any orifice by anything in an act of a sexual nature. So that what used to be called ‘fingering’ and happily engaged in by yours truly at the pictures on a Friday or Saturday night with various sheilas was equated to full penile intercourse, which I have to say from my continually frustrated experience at the time was a very, very long way short of the fuck I was desperately seeking. Nonetheless, the ill-informed and outraged responses to the newspaper survey was regarded as a sound basis for law reform by the government.

#75

100% Islam, since the answers they expressed correspond to the teachings of the koran. And I already said, that you cannot simply draw a line between those two issues. Islam has been a part of those societies for a very long time and just as much as Christianity has shaped our western world and culture, Islam has shaped theirs.

Well, I don’t know much about sudanese people, so I can’t really tell whether it’s typically sudanese, but it is definatly a typically islamic viewpoint.

I’m sorry, but where did you get the impression I was talking about cooking or traffic laws? We’re talking about the most basic human rights which the muslim community as a whole and also those in germany refuse to acknowledge.
You didn’t happen to read something about what happened in the UN human rights conference in the past months?

http://www.achgut.com/dadgdx/index.php/dadgd/article/islamische_staaten_zerstoeren_allgemeine_menschenrechte/

Possibly a factor of 10 to the power of 5 less.

And you should be, as they’re just one piece of information and highly open for manipulation, with leading questions and such.
But they fit into the overall picture here.

#76

LOL Peter Hammond is a conspiracist and sectarian racist whose writings on Islam have all the authority and expertise of Goebbels on the Jews…

He makes idiotic statements that are unprovable and are nothing but baseless opinions masked as fact, such as: “To satisfy their blood lust, Muslims then start killing each other for a variety of reasons…”

Again, the “Stormfront.org” mentality that people are innately prone to violence based on their race and that there is some “Stepford Wife” like conspiracy that is subliminal and automatic…

His notions are patently absurd and he is mocked in any sort of academic circles…

He also has “jihad envy,” sort of the Christian fundamentalist version of penis envy when it comes to the Islamic extremists…

#77

National Socialism also successfully coopted the Vatican and the Lutheran church, and began to deemphasize the Nordic crap, which was mostly allegorical anyways as Hitler was probably an atheist (I think), or that HE was god…

#78

But which “Islamic viewpoint” give the fact that the primarily Arabic-Muslim dominated Sudanese gov’t is killing black African Muslims in what amounts to a cross between genocide and ethnic cleansing. It’s a War that has nothing to do with religion as I believe both follow the Sunni branch of Islam. It’s pretty blatantly about skin color and tribal relations and dynasties…

So, again, what is the religious connotation of the War again?

BTW, they’ve supposedly made peace with the Christian and Animist tribes they were fighting in the North and they now supposedly have a voice in the government…

#79

The point was anyhow not about the nazis, more about a political agenda hidden behind the convenient facade of religion and how to deal with it.
The problem I see with Islam is that it actually has a political agenda written down in its very core, the koran. And don’t come up with this “You can interpret anything into anything” argument. It’s simply missing the point, since you don’t need to interpret anything into the koran in that context.
I know that Christianity, Buddhism etc. had and have people who misuse religion for personal or political purposes, but imho there is a difference in quality if you have to bend over backwards to prove whether your religion justifies or demands this and that or if it is written down literally and unalterably.
All the things the islamic world is being critizised for is in the koran in plain letters and it mustnot be changed or interpreted, that’s probably the actual problem. If it wasn’t for that order we probably wouldn’t have this conversation, but we should face the possibility that the wahhabist Islam like in KSA is exactly how Mohammed wanted it to be (forever) and that a lot of people within this religious community worldwide see it that way (and these are far far more than the ones willing to blow themselves up on a crowded place). It’s just stupid and extremely dangerous to ignore this possibility because it’s inconvenient.
Assuming this was the case, the question would be, what do we do with the people within Islam, who think that way. Imho the western world cannot tolerate them within its sphere of influence since they have the tendency not to change their views and breed like rats, so the future is actually not that hard to predict.

That’s the point you are missing the whole time. The problem is not only the terrorists, the problem is just as much the underlying ideology, and this ideology is far far more widespread than you are willing to admit, Nick.
And its influence is growing. So we are actually in a dilemma. We have the option to not grant them the freedoms we enjoy and thus effectively sink to their level (and hopefully kick them out) or wait for them to dismantle these freedoms for us (which is a certainty). Freedom is the loser either way, but I’d rather sink to their level than wait and hope for the best.

#80

i was thought i found a good forum,…