Then why after I mentioned it to someone who asked me about it did you continuously banter me about the statement and drag it on and on? Your mouth is bigger than your brain.
Yea, I know. You’re dense. But if you studied the subject, you’d find out more. Anyway, you’re wrong. It was the most vicious battle. So say historians. Now be a good boy and try to comprehend what you read a bit more.
No, you’d learn. And it has been explained in what you just read, but alas, you are too stupid to comprehend it. :shock:[/quote]
TROLL post…[/quote]
Firefly, you have followed me from thread to thread for nothing more than the purpose of posting negative comments about everything I say. You’re trolling.
Yea, I know. You’re dense. But if you studied the subject, you’d find out more. Anyway, you’re wrong. It was the most vicious battle. So say historians. Now be a good boy and try to comprehend what you read a bit more.[/quote]
What historians? You’ve posted one man saying that. I’ve seen many battles described as ‘the worst’ - Somme, Stalingrad etc. Are you really saying that none of them are even as bad as Chosin?
Then why after I mentioned it to someone who asked me about it did you continuously banter me about the statement and drag it on and on? Your mouth is bigger than your brain.[/quote]
TROLL post.
Take it to the Korean war thread.
ironman you are mentally ill if you think that firefly is the one trolling…he is not following you, but you may notice his presence more because he is pointing out where you troll (every thread.)
OK, I’m done with the personal insults, as long as you are. So here’s a little something to help you understand what I wrote in my post describing the battle of Chosin Reservoir. No smartassed comments, no insults, just information. I hope that it helps you to realize how incredibly violent, fierce, and vicious that battle was, and why there has never been a battle like it in the history of modern warfare, [/b]and of any single military unit[/b] in modern history:
Most of this hideous battle basically came down to the 1st Regiment of the USMC 1st Marines Division against 200,000 Chinese soldiers, who attacked in huge waves tossing bagfuls of hand grenades and shooting SMG’s. Despite these incredible odds of a couple of thousand men -mostly the 1st marines Regiment, 1st marines Division - @ 4,800 men - against 200,000, the USMC decimated 10 Chinese divisions, single-handedly. Most of the fighting was done with small arms: rifles, carbines, Thompsons, pistols, and machineguns. Of those weapons, the M1A Carbine was the most used weapon because of it’s higher magazine capacity and rate of fire. Had the USMC relied mostly on M1 Garands, twice or more as many USMC would have died, because the battle was so vicious overall that the additional time spent reloading would have caused far more casualties.
The following are only a few of the countless accounts which state so; accounts by authors, military historians, military personel, and US government officials.
"The fighting at the Chosin Reservoir was the most violent small unit fighting in the history of American warfare.
No other operation in the American book of war quite compares with the show [the battle of the Chosin Reservoir] by
the First Marine Division [and attached U.S. Army and British Royal Marines]."
General S.L.A. Marshall, Prominent Army Historian of the Twentieth Century
Also, it is a little known fact that a very high percentage of the Chinese troops used in Korea had only a year or so
earlier been part of Chiang Kai Cheks’ Kuo Ming Tang army and were incorporated into the Red Chinese Army when
Mao took complete control of the mainland. It was these troops that the Marines decimated at Chosin Reservoir.
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2005_04/006133.php
What of the Battle of the Chosin Reservoir, called by one historian "the most violent small-unit fighting in the history of
American warfare," whose anniversary George Howe salutes today on the Viewpoints cover? No American soldiers
fought for a greater cause than did those on the Korean peninsula from 1950 to 1953. The evidence of their
accomplishment is there for the world to see.
http://www.freelancestar.com/News/FLS/2002/112002/11242002/794191
Military historians have properly termed Chosin Reservoir [b]"the most violent small unit fighting in the history of
warfare"[/b] and "one of those military masterpieces that occur when skill and bravery fuse to defy rational
expectation."
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/08/20020829-5.html
Battles in the Korean War’s Northern Campaign are called some of the most vicious in the history of warfare.
http://www.pstripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=5120&archive=true
The fighting withdrawal of the U.S. Marines from the Chosin Reservoir from Nov. 27 to Dec. 9, 1950, is often
considered the fiercest battle in U.S. war history,
http://www.aiipowmia.com/inter23/in180803nk.html
Historians have termed Chosin the most savage battle of modern warfare. They compare it to Tarawa, the bloodiest
battle of World War II
http://www.oaklandonyouth.org/General%20Info/Veterans%20Memorial%20Park/Veterans%20Park.htm
The Chosin Reservoir Battle of the Korean War is considered by many to be the “fiercest battle in our nation’s history”.
http://www.wschiro.edu/news/news_chosin_few.html
The Chosin Reservoir Battle was, the “fiercest battle in our history”.
http://www.angelfire.com/ar/jule3/Chosin.html
The US lost 58,000 men in only 3 years time in Korea. By contrast, the US lost:
Vietnam: 58,000 - a conflict that lasted over 10 years
WWII: 116,991 - a conflict that lasted 4+ years for the US
D-Day: 1,465 - a one day conflict
Ardennes: 5,329 - Dec. 16th through Nov. 15th - a month long battle
Iwo Jima: 17,000 - Feb 19 - Mar 11 - a three week battle
Battle at Chosin Reservoir: 4,000 - 10 days of fighting
All of the above battles, except for Chosin, were faught by many thousands of US troops. Chosin was largely faught by 4,800 - 7,000 men.
I hoe that the above post helps you to understand, and I’m not being snide at all, truly, why Chosin was such a horrific battle. I thoguht perhaps some of you did not realize how vicious it was, so I have provided some information to help you better understand the description I had given of that battle.
Let’s put aside the trash talking that we have all been doing and discuss things in a kinder way. I don’t want you fellows to be an enemy, but instead someone that I can discuss things with and share information with.
Sorry, still A TROLL POST. Off topic (as in not in the Korean thread) and untrue.
Us lost circa 410000 in WW2.
Nice try mate, post in Korea thread please.
REASONS WHY ITS A TROLL.
Unsubstanciated WW2 death tolls.
us lost 407,000 dead according to dunnigan, from the us army research institute.
yeah, chosin may be the hardest battle in us history. maybe. who knows?
but for sure, not compared to the ostfront.
There you go, official source backs up heresay.
Post in korea thread Irnman please, thats what its there for.
Untrue? Please, show us which information is untrue and tell us why you think so.
It was but it wasn’t? :shock:
None compared to it for fierceness or viciousness. I think that’s what you meant to say?
Untrue? Please, show us which information is untrue and tell us why you think so.[/quote]
TROLL POST
REASON
No information to back up your wrong data.
Please provide your sources that are at invarience with all the known worlds ones.
It was but it wasn’t? :shock:
None compared to it for fierceness or viciousness. I think that’s what you meant to say?[/quote]
TROLL POST
REASON
Out of topic - there is a Korean war topic -post there please.
Also
Putting words in other mouths, clearly trying to slant the conversation to your view.
Please take Korean matters to Korean war thread.
Untrue? Please, show us which information is untrue and tell us why you think so.[/quote]
TROLL POST
REASON
No information to back up your wrong data.
Please provide your sources that are at invarience with all the known worlds ones.[/quote]
Incorrect. You have been provided the tesimony of two military officers and numerous authors. Do you try to deny history when it does not center upon your peronal preferences always?
[quote=“Hosenfield”]
My grandfather was a german officer, so he had experience fighting off human-wave assaults supported by tanks. the russians would gather up an immense supremacy in a certain sector and attempt to steamroll it, regardless of losses.
from his experience, one of the most difficult fights he had was during the battle of moscow. The Heer supply channels failed to deliever winter overcoats and weapon oils (to prevent small arms weapons,artillery from freezing up) and the soviets attacked in massive force.
The troops with him had to repulse an assault with only boxes of grenades, sharpened spades, and hollow charge mines and newly captured, greased-up russian small arms…
I’ve given you a personal example. on page 3. My grandfather fought in some very tough and desperate situations, too. He is a Knight’s Cross recipient…
Read anthony’s Beevor Stalingrad and THe fall of Berlin. In fact, anything from the ostfront. thats proof enough.
And, I’ve never said that the KURSK was FIERCER then Chosin, I’ve said that there are many eastern front episodes that are longer, more bloody, but just as fierce.
[quote=“Hosenfield”]I don’t need to keep trying.
you don’t seem to own any books or read books, as a matter of fact.
I’ve haven’t seen you post anything from objective, lengthy military books.
you rely on google websites that are at the most, several pages long and are written with an agenda.
In fact, you seem to reject common sense.
You keep on posting these sites that are written by the soldiers themselves, amateur writers, or people associated with the soldiers
No SHIT.
If I fought in Chosin, I’d write " this is fiercest battle in the history of the world!" Since i’m an officer, that qualifiies me as an expert! Even though I never fought in world war II!
please, stop trying, your war is lost.
IRONHAM,you write bullshit…err BULLSHOT!
Must have missed that, can you please name the two mil officers and the numerous authors please.
Untrue? Please, show us which information is untrue and tell us why you think so.[/quote]
TROLL POST
REASON
No information to back up your wrong data.
Please provide your sources that are at invarience with all the known worlds ones.[/quote]
Incorrect. You have been provided the tesimony of two military officers and numerous authors. Do you try to deny history when it does not center upon your peronal preferences always?[/quote]
TROLL POST
REASON
Refering to data that is unsubstanciated, specifically US ww2 war dead, which Im sure US citizens would take objection to. That and coupling this fact with another, i.e. testimony about Korea.
One should be in ww2 threads, the other belongs in the korean war thread, where IrnMan refuses to post.
Answer?
Post Korean war data in the appropriate thread and your claims on US ww2 deaths in an appropraite ww2 thread.