What was the best army in WWII

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#61

What about the Allied invasion of Italy in 1943?
The Germans attacking the USSR has nothing to do with the US entering the war.
You’ll find that the UK did a fair bit against Germany up to D-Day - Battle of Britain, Rhubarb raids on France, SOE/Commando attacks on targets in Norway and France, the Murmansk convoys to keep the Soviets in the war, getting a bombing campaign against Germany going.[/quote]

Italy 1943 lose the war not germans ,true in italy been germans soldiers they come to help italians ,and UK did not fight alone USA help them a lot UK did send soviets help i know that if germans did not attack soviets Uk alone can nothing against germans ,i say that all germans soldiers will been in france D-Day than not happend . :wink:

#62

The D-day landings would then have taken place at a different location.

#63

Allied want to have invasion on Balcan first but after they decide for Normandy.

#64

Please provide a source for this, since it’s the first I’ve ever heard of it.

#65

So the Soviets were not fighting alone until 1944 were they - I’ve read of at least one SS Panzer Division (Totenkopf I think) being moved from the Eastern Front to Italy to try and deal with the Allied invasion. There was also the resources tied down in North Africa that could also have been moved to the eastern front.

UK did not fight alone USA help them a lot

The UK fought alone from the day that the Dunkirk evacuations ended in June 1940 until the arrival of US forces in North Africa in 1942.

i know that if germans did not attack soviets Uk alone can nothing against germans

We’d already defeated the Luftwaffe in 1940, and had started launching ground attack raids across northern France (Rhubarb Raids), although we may not have been able to launch D-Day without US help, we could certainly have launched it together whether the USSR was involved in the war or not.

i say that all germans soldiers will been in france D-Day than not happend

D-Day could still have happened, since the Germans would have been just as badly led by Hitler whether they were fighting in the USSR or not. Don’t forget that on D-Day a counter attack by the Panzer reserves could probably have pushed the Allies back into the sea, but didn’t happen because of poor leadership - even if the whole German army had been in France, the same thing would have happened.

#66

Please provide a source for this, since it’s the first I’ve ever heard of it.[/quote]

I see that on TV i think on BBC theres been some documentary emmision about D-Day ,and allied in teheran decide for Balcan but in last moment they decide for normandy .

#67

So the Soviets were not fighting alone until 1944 were they - I’ve read of at least one SS Panzer Division (Totenkopf I think) being moved from the Eastern Front to Italy to try and deal with the Allied invasion. There was also the resources tied down in North Africa that could also have been moved to the eastern front.

UK did not fight alone USA help them a lot

The UK fought alone from the day that the Dunkirk evacuations ended in June 1940 until the arrival of US forces in North Africa in 1942.

i know that if germans did not attack soviets Uk alone can nothing against germans

We’d already defeated the Luftwaffe in 1940, and had started launching ground attack raids across northern France (Rhubarb Raids), although we may not have been able to launch D-Day without US help, we could certainly have launched it together whether the USSR was involved in the war or not.

i say that all germans soldiers will been in france D-Day than not happend

D-Day could still have happened, since the Germans would have been just as badly led by Hitler whether they were fighting in the USSR or not. Don’t forget that on D-Day a counter attack by the Panzer reserves could probably have pushed the Allies back into the sea, but didn’t happen because of poor leadership - even if the whole German army had been in France, the same thing would have happened.[/quote]

Ok .

#68

Man of Stoat i can find in net nothing to prove this but i know this ,germans know the allied want to landing in adriatic coast and to stop that they have two big offansive against partisans in coast sector Black 1 and White 1,2 in that offansive they wanted to catch Tito and stop landing but allied decide to not have actions in balcan.

#69

This Balkans pish is rubbish.

There was never any plan to invade through the Balkans.

Look at a map it would have been absolute idiocy to try to invade the Balkans to end the war.

Shall we just pop across the channel, or shall we stretch our lines of communications to such an extent as to make them undefendable. Air cover would be severly compromised.

To invade the Balkans it would be much better to go east from Italy, unless you are a sadist and think that Beach landings are good.

What did you put on your corn flakes this morning? Crack?

#70

That’s what I wasi implying, only more politely :wink:

#71

Sorry, sorry, :oops:

I just sometimes flip out. :shock:

#72

Understandably - I try to calm down when unmitigated pish is posted, cos otherwise certain posters get all uppity. We’ve found by experience that it’s best to ask them to provide a source - if they can’t, then it’s 99% likely to be bollocks, and “I saw it on TV”, whilst probably OK for minor details, is probably bollocks for major strategic plans and the suchlike, which have been written about at length.

Oh, and you might want to tone down your avatar to 80x80, btw…

#73

Stoat i dont lie about that i have sources but all is on Croatian language ,i am not stupid to post bullshits here,ok if you to dont trust me dont insult me becouse this ,i send you PM do you read it then i apologies to you and i dont want to fight with anyone in this site even with you 1000 ,and in Awards you tell then i have something against you NO i dont .

#74

then post it in Croatian (pref. with a translation) & don’t get so upptiy so quickly!

#75
  1. u Italiji su se sreli Tito i Čerčil. Tito je odbacio saradnju sa Dražom Mihailovićem i mogućnost iskrcavanja komnadosa na jadransku obalu pod komandom vlade u Londonu. U to vreme u Srbiji Draža Mihailović i kvislinška vlada Milana Nedića uspostavljaju tešnju saradnju radi delovanja protiv partizana.

Oktobra 1944. Tito je u Moskvi. Dobija oružje za opremanje 10 divizija, avione i žito. U Rumuniji se sreo s maršalom Tolbuhinom radi dogovora o otpočinjanju zajedničkih operacija Crvene armije i partizanskih jedinica u oslobađanju Beograda i ostalih delova Jugoslavije. Tito se sastao i sa predstavnicima Patriotskog fronta Bugarske. Dogovorena je saradnja oko učešća bugarskih jedica u oslobađanju Jugoslavije.

1944 tito is not want accept possibility the british commandos land in adriatic coast from command in london .I only know translate this .

http://www.mltranslations.org/serbcroat/pryugo.htm[/b]

#76
  1. into a Italy have been does sreli Tito plus Čerčil. Tito had throw away saradnju from an Leniency Mihailovićem plus possibility liberation komnadosa at an Adriatic coastline under commando Government into a London. INTO A this worldly in Serbia Leniency Mihailović plus quisling Government Milanese Nedića to establish tešnju saradnju is doing delovanja versus partisan. Octogon 1944. Tito had into a Moscow. Dobija weapon for fitout 10 division , plane plus scoop. INTO A Romania does sreo with marshal Tolbuhinom is doing unison about otpočinjanju mutual operations Claret-colored armije plus partizanskih unit into a liberation Belgrade plus other delova Yugoslavia. Tito does meeting plus from an spokeswoman Patriotic line Bulgarian. Conventional had saradnja about učešća Bulgarian only child into a liberation Yugoslavia.

OK, I know that’s a shit translation, but where does it say that there was a genuine Allied (i.e. US/UK) plan to invade the Balkans which was dropped in favour of Normandy? It seems that this is just about Tito’s wishes etc. Although the number of words I can base that on is limited…

#77

An invasion may have been thought about, but it would have been much easier to go west from Italy over land than force a landing. I think this would have been more likely to solve the fighting in the Balkans than force an end to the war.

To finish the war, which is what Overlord was all about, why land a force even further away than you already are? It would have been easier just to land them on Italy on secure beachs and force their way north.

By invading France they also pushed the Germans back so that Britian started taking less of a pounding. Pretty important if the whole island is essential a depot for the invasion forces!!!

#78

I think I know what it is about:

When the Allieds after OP Torch (Landings in Northern Africa) prepared for the next operation in the mediterranean, the landing in Sicily (Operation Husky), they tried successfully to keep the Germans and Italians in the dark about where and when the Allieds would hit next, the Germans knew that something was going on, since the Allieds couldn’t keep the major deployment of troops to northern Africa secret.

One part of this deception was OP Mincemeat.
The body of a 34 year old man, who had died in a British hospital of pneumonia, was dressed as a captain and acting major of the Royal Marines. MI5 and other government agencies created as whole legend about this man, who in reality never existed, but they invented even a fiancee for him, in case the Germans should check on his identity. This body was equiped with paperwork stating that he was a courier on board of a plane carrying important messages to the headquarters of General Alexander in Egypt.
These papers in a secure courier brief case included a plan that the target of the next major Allied operation in the Mediterranean would be a landing in the Balkans with Alexander attacking Corsica and Sardinia as a decoy.

The body was then packed in a cooled special container and loaded on board of a RN submarine in Scotland. The body was then pushed into the sea off the Spanish coast, in a spot, where it was sure to be washed on land.

Spanish fishermen found the body and informed Spanish authorities, who in turn gave all the papers to the German Abwehr, who swallowed the whole think hook, line and sinker. As a result German troops in Greece and Yugoslavia were reinforced, while the Italians were unprepared for the real landings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mincemeat

http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/navalwarfare/a/mincemeat.htm

It seems that this deception is still working today.

Jan

#79

Aah, yes - there was a fairly good film about it!

#80

Was it “The man who never was”?

Maybe a bit of confusion between the Normandy landings and the Italy landings.