Having spent the 27th of Dec in Next with my daughter I can only conclude that they do everything in DPM, it’s a fashion concious walt’s paradise.
I must confess that I picked up a rather comfy pair of black combats which I was wearing this morning when my daughter got up, she took one look and said “Boom head shot”, this is what happens when you leave short cuts on your desk top.
I better request a location check to see how far off topic this thread has gone
Flame_thrower- exactly. If something actually existed it ain’t a myth now is it?
They do DPM shell suits :shock:[/quote]
Have you never seen the Kingo’s or the Cheshire’s boxing teams?
A few years ago I was in Cyprus and the Kingo’s were there. I couldnt believe them, they were walking stereotypes! An eye opener for me and my lot I can tell you!
I heared that when us tried to land on italy in some place, the germans made a strike back, which pushed the allies back into the sea so fast that there was a shooting between a Allied destroyer and german Tigers.
None hit the other though :roll:
I wouldnt want to be in any kind of Tank with a destroyer firing at me!
Another one I heard is that in 1944 or 45 a JU-390? flew a round trip to New York, yet there is no shred of evidence for it?
Disputed New York flight in 1944
There is a heavily disputed claim that in January 1944, a Ju-390 prototype made a trans-atlantic flight from Mont-de-Marsan (near Bordeaux) to some 20 km (12 miles) off the coast of the United States and back. Critics claim FAGr.5 (Fernaufklärungsgruppe 5) never flew such a flight. Supporters say the only link between FAGr.5 and the New York flight is the common use of an airfield at Mont-de-Marsan and the veracity of the New York flight is neither proved nor disproved by a lack of unit records for such a flight. Indeed the flight may have had nothing whatsoever to do with FAGr.5 operations.Whilst the Ju-390’s 32-hour endurance would have certainly made such a crossing theoretically possible, there is a lack of evidence to support the claim. Aviation historian Horst Zoeller claims the flight was recorded in Junkers company records.
Critics have also pointed to the vagueness of the aircraft’s alleged position and even the date of what would have been a milestone flight. The best known (and maybe earliest publication) of the claim in English was in William Green’s Warplanes of the Third Reich in 1970, where he wrote that the Ju 390 flew to “a point some 12 miles from the US coast, north of New York”. Critics say the vagueness of detail and lack of corroborating evidence are hallmarks of an urban legend.
Critics believe that the aircraft would have had to overfly parts of the Massachusetts coast in order to fix their location, and point out the likelihood of the aircraft being spotted by observers and/or radar, which it was not. If New York state were meant, this would have put the aircraft closer to Boston. Critics ask why this city wasn’t referred to for fixing the position of the claim. Finally, it is questioned how the aircrew would have been able to fix their position so accurately anyway.
Supporters argue that a Ju-390 crew could have obtained a highly accurate fix from public broadcast radio stations. Also that a Ju-390 would not have needed to overfly Massachusetts at all. They say there was no reason why New York City could not have been approached purely from the sea.
Supporters also note that the mission was designed to deliver a single bomb to New York and that such a bomb could only have been the atomic weapon under development. Japan and Germany at the time were using the “Harteck Process” of gaseous uranium centrifuges. Germany in 1944 was shipping both uranium ores and centrifuges to Japan by U-boat.
Supporters of the New York flight say of course the mission was kept secret so as not to tip off the US Government to provide better air defences. It was an ultra top secret test flight for the delivery of an atomic bomb.
Corroboration is gleened from the so-called Silbervogel sub-orbital bomber designed to attack New York from space with only a single bomb. Only one type of bomb was worth all the time and expense involved. Supporters say a mission so secret would never have found its way into FAGr.5 logbooks.
Supporters note the top secret unit, II/KG200 also flew the Ju-390 as did Junkers company test pilots in Czechoslovakia.
Following the war, Hitler’s armaments minister Albert Speer also recounted to author James P O’Donnell that a Ju-390 aircraft flown by Junkers test pilots flew a polar route to Japan in 1944.
Source wikipedia
Cheers Dani, it also brings up another 2 Myths there:
a. The Nazis somehow had an Atom Bomb ready to fly.
b. The ‘Silverbird’, which begat the USAF, Dina Soar, er except the Silverbird never flew.
You know a complete design does not have to reach fruition for it to be the inspiration, foundation or copy of a later successful one. Guy like Sänger and von Braun were dreaming up ways to get into space for a long time and had many projected vehicles for the purpose. The concept of a reuseable orbiter vehicle in the Silverbird that Sänger calculated for in the late 30s was a little ahead of the space shuttle, huh?
The Ju 390 may or may not have made the flight. Only Junkers Werks records reflect the fact. Certainly the Me 264 could have easily.
The Germans had no a-bomb. In fact the Japanese were ahead of them. They had been building centrifuges since the early 30s where the Germans finally did in 1942. The bonus of gaseous extraction precludes the need for heavy water.
Your right, so at least we dispell another couple of myths here then.
I’m a little confused as to believeability ( is this a word in english? :lol: ) of the so called myths, but how about the wide spread and widely disputed one regarding Hitler actually not dying in the bunker, but secretly escaping from Berlin? Joseph Heywood even wrote a novel about it where he showed how such an escape could have happened (he then postulated that Hitler was caught by Soviets and was kept and tortured in a cage for Stalin’s enjoyment).
See the Geman Military for much discussion on the above mate:
http://www.ww2incolor.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1410
Another Myth thats just been debunked to me today was that The Queen Mum and King George, never looked the East End in the eye at all during the Blitz, but went to Windsor each and every night.
Piotr- Personally I believe he died in the bunker as described if only due to the fact that a wide variety of people that were ther have identical stories. His civilian secretary, military men, his personal aide etc.
We know that the disappearance of Martin Bormann fuels lots of stories about how he was leadng the 4th Reich and was seen all over the place alive. But a few years ago they were excavating a section of buried subway not touched since WW 2 when they found his body. Probably the victim of an air raid.
I simply doubt that Hitler and his wife were spirited away anywhere. There WAS a long range flying boat at the ready for such a trip but it did not wisk the Hitlers away to point unknown it foiled by an American spy. It was feasible and even possible for an escape but he never did it in my opinion.
Oh, I agree with you completely that Hitler died in the bunker. But Heywood came up with a doozie of an idea. You see, Hitler had a double and help from one of the hand-picked SS specialist (Kind of like special forces guys today). They brought the double through a hidden entrance after Eva took her poison, made HIM take a poison, and Hitler and his spec left through the secret passage. Then the book follows their escape and pursuit by a team of NKVD guys picked by Stalin to either capture Hitler, or confirm his death. It’s actually a very exciting book, but of course a complete fiction.
Now here is a myth that even historians got wrong. Generally, it’s accepted that “Finger Four” formation was developed by Luftwaffe pilots and duplicated by RAF after their pilots reported how effective it was. However, if you read any of the memoirs of Polish pilots, it was the 303 Squadron that developed the formation to counter their losses incurred by using the infamous V formation with a tail-end Charlie as required by RAF. The Poles were reprimended for using “irregular” formation and were told to use the V formation again. Meanhile, Germans copied this and only then RAF accepted the “finger four” for the RAF. The reason I believe this story is because a) I read it in at least 4 different memoirs, and b) it explains how Polish squadron could accumulate the highest kill ratio in BoB.
Not quite - the Poles may very well have developed it independently, but the Luftwaffe was using it in the Spanish Civil War, and the Finns were possibly using it before that.
The conventional combat-patrol formation of all air forces was a three-plane flight, flying in a tight Vee – at least, until Mölders arrived. The Germans called this Vee a Kette. After flying a few sorties, Mölders observed that the average pilot paid more attention to avoiding collisions with his fellow pilots than he did to actual combat. Mölders suggested replacing the Kette with a Rotte, which consisted of only two aircraft, flying about 600 feet apart. This distance gave the pilots room to maneuver and also enabled them to cover a larger expanse of sky. In each Rotte, the abler and more experienced pilot and marksman was the leader and assumed the primary attack role. His wingman covered his leader’s tail and joined in the attack as required. Two Rotten combined to form a Schwarm, of which one of the pilots was the leader.
Each plane of the Schwarm flew at a different altitude, and when viewed from above each plane flew in the location of the four fingertips of a horizontally extended hand, palm down, with fingers straight and slightly spread. With this loose and flexible formation, large expanses of sky were no longer cut off from view by friendly aircraft as they were in tightly packed formations. Now that modern fighter planes were equipped with radio, it was no longer necessary to fly close to the leader to observe his hand signals. The Finnish air force may in fact have adopted this system back in 1935, but Mölders was the first to develop and test it in combat. Every air force has since adopted this system. In the Royal Air Force it is known as the “finger-four formation,” while the U.S. Air Force calls it the “double-attack system.”
From: http://historynet.com/ahi/blcondor_legion_in_spain/index3.html but there are literally dozens of references that say the same thing.
Ok, I stand corrected. :oops: I just read a 2002 interview with Stanislaw Skalski where he stated that the Brits copied Germans. However, I will keep searching… 
Said the man in the orthopedic shoes! :lol:
I seriously doubt MONTY could have blackmailed IKE with this info, since everybody knew it. Her name was Kay SOMMERSBY, and she was his driver as well as his secretary, and their affair was one of the worst kept secrets of WWII.
I seriously doubt Monty would have done that, nor do I think it would have worked since there was censorship of news as it was…