Right Nick. Monty had too much integrity to even think of something so sordid as blackmail.
OK, back to Finger Four and who invented it. I google’d this at work 8) and came up with a lot of different hits (including one suggesting it was the Finns and/or Canadians who invented it). The one I like the most is what I found on Black Knights HQ (bkbhg.com). It states that Marian Pisarek, a CO of 308 (yes, ANOTHER Polish) Squadron officially introduced this formation to RAF in May 1941. Note, that it does not deny that Germans used it in Spain, only that it was Pisarek who officially used it in RAF. Also, it does not preclude stories in several books (including one by Bohdan Arct who flew as #3 in the Skalski’s Circus in Africa- 14.5 kills) that suggested Polish pilots “illegally” using it in the BoB. Oh, well, sometimes even Google can’t help… :roll:
A lot of RAF squadrons were adopting new tactics (including ‘Finger Four’) as they got combat experience in France and the Battle of Britain, it wouldn’t surprise me if the Poles used it (given their combat experience in Poland and France) too.
Not effective eh?
and you are refering to…???
Referring to that the “finger four” didnt work for the RAF.
Yes, it did work. Before adopting the Finger Four tactic the RAF flew in very tight ‘Vics’ of three aircraft which were too rigid for combat and were exposed by the Luftwaffe as such.
Wasn’t this the BBC Timewatch documentary April Fools joke? Whilst in England he was supposed to have met up with Edward VIII. A very well done joke. But was in the late 1980’s I think.
Operation Bernard? The Nazi’s used Jewish prisoners to forge British banknotes and later US dollars. At the end of the war loads of the notes where dumped in a lake and later discovered by Stern magazine.
I have one of the forged white fivers myself.
Originally the idea was to destabilise the British economy by dropping the notes en masse over Britain. However, this idea was shelved and the money used to pay agents and buy arms. The funny part was the Germans used forged British banknotes to purchase weapons from Yugo resistance fighters which had been dropped to them by the British Special Operations Executive - who says the Germans don’t have a sense of humour! :lol:
(In the 1980’s there was a great BBC comedy series starring the late Michael Elphick, called Private Schultz, that told a reasonably accurate account of Operation Bernard)
That the Tiger 1 was in action in NthAfrica at El Alamein!??
It’s on several web sites.
But.
Why is it impossible?
There were 4 Tigers from HG Pz Div shipped to Tunisia to repel the Torch landings. They did resonably well and put the wind the allied troops. Perhaps these are the tigers the websites refer to.
There was 24 Tiger 1 in Afrika by the end of 1942, but NONE of these participate in el Alamein because it happen ealier than the arrival of those tanks.
I saw the letter below in The Times today, it’s an interesting thought, was Operation Sealion just a ploy by the Germans to deflect attention from Operation Barbarossa?
"Sir, Did the Germans really intend to invade Britain in 1940? Hitler decided in July 1940 that his next objective was the Soviet Union, an enormous task requiring nearly a year of preparation. The Germans could hardly have concurrently mounted an invasion in three months, a task that took the Allies two years to prepare when their turn came.
I believe that Operation Sea Lion, the supposed invasion plan, was no more than an elaborate intelligence charade to convince a gullible Stalin that he was not on the menu.
MARK CORBY
London SE24 "
I think its true. The mythical operation Sea Lion was never be possible becourse germans had not enough the landing ships. Manshtain recalled in its book “Lost victories”.
Alan Clark , british historian also support this point in book “Barbarossa”.
But Stalin knew that war with germany was inevitable, therefore he used any possibility since 1939 up 1941 to move the Soviet border to the west.
It was pragmatic (but cynical) politic.
But Germans surprised him in 1941 when they proved that for its tanks the distance is not problem.
Perhaps Op. Sea Lion was a charade. But there is little doubt that the Wehrmacht dedicated extensive time and effort into modifying landing barges since they had no equivalent to the Higgins boat, nor any amphibious capability to speak of. Their decision not to invade Britain seems to be more out of frustration at the difficulty of mounting a large scale sea invasion as opposed to an elaborate deception.
edit to say–
The German Luftwaffe also failed to achieve air-superiority over the RAF, which may, or may not, have had dire consequences for the Kriegsmarine. But this certainly would have made things risky. Can you imagine if the Allies had not had air-superiority over Normandy?
There is currently some debate about the Battle of Britain not being the event that saved Britain from invasion, but that the threat of the Royal Navy kept the Germans from attempting it.
However it is not too difficult to consider that any German invasion of Britain would require both air and naval superiority. Both the RAF and the RN were required, and until either or both were neutralised an invasion was out of the question.
This of course does not take into account the efforts of the British army in resisting invasion. Any forces that were landed would have been countered, and even though British armour was not up to German standard, it cannot be completely discounted. Invading is one thing, winning after an invasion is another.
I personally take the view that German preparations for invasion were a political move - to put pressure on Britain to reach an accomodation with Germany. It should be remembered that in May 1940 there had been serious discussion in the British government about accepting German supremacy in Europe and ending the war. It was accepted that except on the peripheries Britain on its own was no threat to German occupied Europe.
It was only when Hitler, stupidly, declared war on the USA at Pearl Harbor, that the USA became involved seriously in Europe. The Soviet Union stayed out of the war against Japan until August 1945, it may have been possible to have kept the USA out of Europe.
I aggree. In 1940 this was political pressure. But don’t forget about perspectives.
If germans Barbarossa could be successfull in end of 1941 and SU was down the perspective of German invasion into Britain was real. And Hitler was right in december of 1941 when declared war on the USA . German troops stood near Moscow and he seemed that Stalin soon it will the end. In this case Hitler need more active Japan support for the restraining OF THE USA, until it is solve problem with England.
But Japan did not declare war on the Soviet Union, which meant that Stalin could move his Mongolian Divisions west.
Right up the the end of the war US freighters, sailing under the Red flag of the Soviet Union, sailed into Russian eastern ports delivering war supplies, unmolested by the Japanese. The Japanese had decided back in 1939 not to strike west, but to go south into Asia.
Yes , Japan don’t need to declare war on the SU when they desaided to gou into South-Eastern Asia.( This unavoidably involve them into war with USA).
This solution i think , was the result of the offence of the Japanese for Hitler, whom into 1939 (during the Japanese aggression on the the Soviet teritories on the Far East) concluded Soviet-German nonagression pact. The Japanese “took vengeance” upon Hitler, when during November 1941 they refused to attack in THE USSR in the east. This made it possible to use Far-Eastern troops in the defense of Moscow. Hitler was in the fury.
He ceased to consider the Japanese as allies. But its opinion somewhat softened after Pearl Harbor.
To the happiness, Japan ang Germany did not act in the WW2 as the real allies. Instead of together destroying of THE USSR in 1941, then use resources on the occupied territories to raise military economy they attempted to solve its own problems.
As the resault Hitler overestimated his forces in THE USSR and Japan “imagined” himself by great sea power against THE USA. They lost war each separately.
I agree with Chevan,
There is no single proof of Germany and Japan acting as allies.
Perhaps some rumours about “atomic research” and alleged transports of uranium from Germany to Japan.
Any other remotely substantial signs of efficient co-operation?
Cheers,
Lancer44