Vlasov’s men (ROA) were POW’s in German concentration camps, who did can fight in conjunction with Germans or die of hunger. You can also know Stalin brand them as traitors.
Vlasov knew about Soviet crimes, so he joined Germans in capacity nation which fought aggainist bolsheviks.
But they WERE a traitors indeed.
The fought for NAzy.
You contradict with yourself.
If the Vlasov seen the condition in the Nazy concentrations camp ( the mass famine and cruel treating of the soviet pows) - how he could think that Nazy will better treat russian population if Germany would win the war?
Vlasov knew about Soviet crimes, so he joined Germans in capacity nation which fought aggainist bolsheviks.
So in you mind he did not guess about Nazy crimes especially commited toward the Soviet POWs and Civilians in occuped terrotories?
I don’t contradict with myself.
Vlasov was captured by Germans. Who he ought to have join? Japanese?
How to defeat evil. Join all evil…
If you call them traitors, Poles, Czech, French, Belgians and other foreginers who fought againist axis must be traitors too.
Oh yes, bolsheviks won so they are kind and all mens, who fought againist them must be bad.
Listen man
I could believe that the German occupation of Cheholovakia wasn’t so cruel lake occupation of Rassia, Ukraine, Poland and Ugoslavia.
And i could understand why - the Czechs worked hard for the Nazy- they docile produced a lot of veaponry , have no partisans or seriouse resistence till the most end. So you could love NAzy as much as you can.
However Vlasov who CERTAINLY saw the Nazy relation to the local population: mass murdering and ets.
And ALSO he , being in Nazy concentration camp CLEARLY saw the relation of Nazy to the russian POWs: mass executions, famine and lack of any medical service.
And if even he naivly hoped that Nazy let him to fight for “independent Russia” - he was a finished idiot to believe that Germans will let them to do this if they won the war.
So if sum the all aspects of his tragical life - he was a TRATOR who agreed to serve for the Nazy whatever he dremed or hoped.
The Nazy cynically used him in its anti-soviet propoganda and demorazed by him a lot soviets pows ( the other lovely Nazy “kind of persuasion” was to threat to kill them via the famine and hard work)
So please do not spread any more your rusophobian blunder.
Do not cover it as the “your anti-communism” and other bulshit.
Just be a bold to say- i hate you russians coz you are…
And Vlasov was a GREAT men coz he agreed to kill your peoples together with Nazy;)
That should be honestly at least.
If you do not know the history and do not know that French executed its OWN Nazy coloborationists after the war- you make a great mistake.
Even the french woman who lived with NAzy were covered by the shame for a long time.
Mmmmm
And i could understand why - the Czechs worked hard for the Nazy- they docile produced a lot of veaponry , have no partisans or seriouse resistence till the most end. So you could love NAzy as much as you can.
If you don’t know anything about “Protektorat”, German occupation of my motherland, our resistance etc., don’t type such nonsenses. I am patriot so don’t type please these lies about my nation.
Listen Chevan, you title them as nazis and traitors. Soviet regime was worse then nazi regime, but soldiers who fought againist Germans with Red army are heroes. How absurd…
I am anticommunist, but I DON’T love nazis! Nazis were swines, but bolsheviks too! If you know history you must realize that fact. Stalinism and nazism were evil, but bolsheviks are glorifed because they won the war.
If you think we had no resistance, I can tell you a few numbers (no everything, it would be very difficult to type and translate) about home resistance.
From 137 generals of Czechoslovak army were executed or killed in war 64 + 2 died after war because of aftermath of war. Next 17 were arrested. Next 62 officers of the general staff died during occupation in home resistance.
About assassination of Heydrich and murders of our people you mut know.
Well Jan.
Sure i know about assassination of Heydrich, Slovak uprising and Uprising in Prague.
However lets compare some things
From 137 generals of Czechoslovak army were executed or killed in war 64 + 2 died after war because of aftermath of war. Next 17 were arrested. Next 62 officers of the general staff died during occupation in home resistance.
Do you really think this is a much?
Jan do you ever hear how many peoples died in Ukraine, Poland and Yugoslavia?
Even in France and Holand the resistence played much more importaint role then in Chahoslovakia during the war.
Although Germans suppressed them a as well.
Thats what Wiki write about Czech resistence
Czech resistance to Nazi occupation during World War II is a scarcely documented subject, by and large a result of little formal resistance and an effective German policy that deterred acts of resistance or annihilated organizations of resistance
…
In addition to serving as the means of communication between London and Prague, the ÚVOD ( the headquarter of Resistence) was also responsible for the transmission of intelligence and military reports. It did so primarily through the use of a secret radio station, which could reach the Czech population. However, the ÚVOD was known to transmit inaccurate reports, whether false intelligence data or military updates. Sometimes this was intentional. Beneš often urged the ÚVOD to relay falsely optimistic reports of the military situation to improve morale or motivate more widespread resistance.
So as we see the in aim to “improve moral” the UVOD radio simply lie for the allies.
Besides
The ÚVOD’s relationship with the KSČ was an important aspect of its daily functions, as Soviet-Czech relations became a central part of their resistance efforts. The German invasion of the Soviet Union in June 1941 marked a turning point in Soviet-Czech relations. Before the invasion, “the main Communist objective was to stop the imperialist war” and was often sympathetic to the German workers of the Reich. After the invasion, the Resistance began to rely on communist support both within Czechoslovakia and from Moscow. In a broadcast from London on 24 June 1941 via the ÚVOD, Beneš informed his country that “the relationship between our two States thus returned to the pre-Munich situation and the old friendship.”
So there is no any doubts that the pro-communist members were the MAIN part of the Czech resistence.
And when the COMMUNIST CZECH LEADERS has began the uprising in Prague in 5 may 1945 - they simply refuse the help of the Vlasov coz the obvious reason - they could not trust for the trator.
And they also refuse the help of Americans ,they officially asked the Red Army to save the city ( and already through 3 day the soviet tanks had arrived to the Prague)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fb/Prague_liberation_1945_tanks_barricades.jpg
So claiming the Czech communists - you claime the people who organised the first really effective anti-german resistence and who fought to the death with NAzy while the most of “patriots” still hard work for the Germans.
What is absurd Jan - the Czech communists who died in fight against Nazy is absurd.
Sure the “patriots” who feel enough good during NAzy thing that the Soviets “regime” was even worse.
But you could tell this propoganda buls… for the Americans and Britains may be they wil believe you - but not for me who lived during the “soviet regime” whole 13 years.
I am anticommunist, but I DON’T love nazis! Nazis were swines, but bolsheviks too! If you know history you must realize that fact. Stalinism and nazism were evil, but bolsheviks are glorifed because they won the war.
Do you ever know that Stalin executed the last Bolshevic Trockij already in the 1941?
i guss no, coz you miss the points.
Bla bla bla
It’s not historican discussion if you use wikipedia as information source. Let’s close the discussion, because of guff from wikipedia.
During WWII died very much our people who fought againist nazis. You can vilify them, but not at public forum! I spoke about generals and colonels, but not only them fought againist nazis.
But you could tell this propoganda buls… for the Americans and Britains may be they wil believe you - but not for me who lived during the “soviet regime” whole 13 years.
You lived in 80’s, in the age of Gorbacev. It wasn’t Stalinism. I speak about 30’s, 40’s and 50’!
Oh do you live during the Stalinism 1930-40.
Damn …im speaking with a grandfather…How old are you, 80?
During WWII died very much our people who fought againist nazis. You can vilify them…
No man- i speak not about who died fighting with NAzy.
You do not slander at me, please.From the most beginning i told about Trators- the peoples who colloborated with Nazy.
And the fact that in Chehoslovakia there were a lot of colloborationists - more then in France, Poland and Ukraine. Therefor the Czech resistence was relatively tiny.
Howeve i NEVER said BAD about peoples who fight agains nazy in Czech undeground - but they were too small part of society.
If you doubt - i 've give you the international source ( more or less reliable) that written by the Brits/Americans.Who BTW agreed that the Czech resistence was MOSLY PRO-COMMUNISTS.
So this is you man - who vilify the Czech communists the leaders of Resistence who died in fight with Nazy.
And if you have nothing to say except “bla bla bla” then lets forget about this OFF TOPIC dicussion.
Yea… so look for the USA man.
There live over 250++ nationalities today . Strange why it did not collapes
The “rule” is the ONLY for the dastard greedy nationalist leaders who want a more power for themself. But not for the normal states.
The USA is the state of emigrants. I meant the states made up of original nations living on their historic territories.
None of them Go! Rommel
This is the second of your three utterly silly comments. Try not to make it four.
I think it’s general WINTER.
He was also pretty good against Napoleon.
USSR + winter = winner
USSR - winter = looser
UK + English Channel = winner
UK - English Channel = looser
USA + no land borders with anyone = winner
USA - no land border with anyone = looser
Like so?
Yea 
Sure our famouse Marshal of infantry, the greatest russian strategist General FROST is the our main ally agains any of warm-fancier Western inviders.
Just look on the his deeds:)
BEFORE
The soldiers of 6 army selebrated the victory in summer of 1942.
AFTER
Stalingrad , January 1943 .
27 degrees below Zero .
the Germans POWs look mostly like this one:)
Konev,… " spray them with katushyas,… and let our tankist ground them,…"
Zhukov, if only because he was the least inept of the russian general staff, a decent strategist, a pathetic tactician who’s only doctrine was sending men to tell death till the enemy runs out of bullets but his strategic sense was good.
In any civilized country where lives of its citizens are valued he’d been sacked as a commander though.
Thanks for you “Muppet History Book” definition of Marshal Zhukov, but I think it a bit over simplistic…
Maybe, but it’s the best he can do.