Falklands/Malvinas war pictorial. Post yours ¡¡¡.

Other Wars Falklands/Malvinas War
#181

HI PK,

Those pics are gross mate, why do not you wipe them out? for civility sake…:wink:

Pánzon, a warmhearted, albeit belated, welcome to the site.
I’ve read through your posts and you come across as someone who is willing and able to debate points without getting het up or inflamed by rhetoric, hysteria or fantasy. Thank you.

Many thanks Cuts, I appreciate the welcoming, let us see if we can talk like we are about these matters…

Something ver funny happened today, I gave a car ride to a colleague of mine, who results to have been in the 3 Para for 13 years.

He is 36 now, so he was never there… he was surprissed when I mentioned Co (PM) Jones and Mayor (then) Chris Keeble… they all know the story …a good chat will arise from there…

We arranged to seat one of this days, him with a couple of pints and myself with at least two liters of coca cola and have a long chat where perhaps some old buddies of arms will attend, veterans of the Falklands… I really look forward to that and I prommise I will report on the meeting… for the moment !! I know the real name of “Andy Mc Nab” !!!

Somebody has to start building bridges, perhaps the “confidence” offered by the oportunity of discussing issues without having to use the torch may be a beginning… the best in order to achieve this… is to start with the “easy” parts… then learn how to debate the difficult matters… then explain very carefuly that an eventual Argentine sovereignty will mean no change whatsoever for the islanders status… but… can´t we put this on hold for the moment and post Falklands/Malvinas pics?

I am starting to like this forum, you will have me here often.

Cheers,

Juan.

#182

Quote: “Those pics are gross mate, why do not you wipe them out? for civility sake…”

The thread is about pictures of the war, and so these are.if you want the sunny day, playing cards, and music type of pictures, thats fine too. but one sided. Show it for what it really is, War. Panzer Knacker is not wrong to post them, nor are his motivations, or beliefs for doing so, posted or otherwise.
Since when has War been civil? Since when has it been fair?
I am no moderator, but I see there is some bad form in some of the responses to P.K.'s postings. Just my tuppence worth. - Raspenau -

#183

HI PK,

Those pics are gross mate, why do not you wipe them out? for civility sake…

I am just simply making a point.
Any conventional armament could cause severe burns not just the napalm.

I am pretty sure that the argentine sailors wich were near the boilers of the Belgrano when those explode after the torpedo hit were cooked in the most horrific way…we should forbidd torpedos then?

The thread is about pictures of the war, and so these are.if you want the sunny day, playing cards, and music type of pictures, thats fine too. but one sided. Show it for what it really is, War. Panzer Knacker is not wrong to post them, nor are his motivations, or beliefs for doing so, posted or otherwise.

The same goes from my part, Panzon If you can found one picture in wich both argentines and british are enjoying togheter an asado/BBq the 1th may 1982 feel free to post it. :roll:

#184

The pictures have been posted before and received no complaint, I would not see any point in taking them down. I could find much worse to prove my points, graphically.

ref only two Argentine members being active. That is pointless arguement. Just admit you made a mistake. I quite clearly pointed out that I was not aiming at specific site members, regardless of how many are active etc.

I only recently realised that Panzon is indeed Argentine, as up till then I didn’t really know. i do not look specifically for peoples nationality. You would also remember a certain British person who came on not so long ago who I also disliked for his attitude.

It is teh attitude that I mark, not the nationality, (which can be lied about anyway).

I feel the bit I put in about not being about site members was more than adequete to inform all on the site that I was not talking specifically about site members in general, or youself in particular.

Ref burns and weapons.

You are correct, a torpedo in the boiler room would also cause burns. However, and this is a big point, the weapon is not designed to cause such wounds, they are a seperate issue.

If you punch someone in a bar, and they land on a candle, would you expect to be charged for Arson?

Napalm on the otherhand, due to it’s manufacture being petrol and polystyrene thickner (amongst other things), is specifically designed to stick to things. ie Humans.

I appreciate that you may not fully follow the logic behind this, BUT weapons are designed to be as humane as possible. This is why bullets are specifically designed to international agreed standards, and the modification of them is illegal.

Napalm can in no way be changed, as it would just become a huge petrol bomb, with out the sticky stuff, or just a big pile of goo without the igniter and the petrol.

Hence Napalm, White Phos and Flame Throwers tend to be banned by many countries.

It is not the secondary affects of the weapons that are taken in to consideration, as they are highly variable. It is the primary affect.

If the Torpedoes used by the Royal Navy, had pierced the skin of the Belgrano and sprayed Napalm in to the boiler room then they would be not nice. That the boilers cooked off when the cold water hit them, is unfortunate but a risk the firemen take.

It may be interesting to note, that in many sinkings the firemen and other engine room personnel are often the worst hit, even in civialian sinkings such as the Titanic. The cold water hitting the red hot boilers cause explosions.

I must admit, I didn’t know it had been used though. I thought it was just stock piled at Goose Green.

The point about the burns from other incidents in the Falklands is just one of your smoke screans to defend the undefendable. Napalm is not nice, and has been banned by many countries, end of.

#185

A few quotes from the t’internet.

In a few cases, napalm has incapacitated and killed its victims very quickly. Those who do survive suffer 3rd degree burns, damaging the vascular dermis, and are generally in terrible pain and have huge scars all over their bodies. Victims who suffer 2nd degree burns from splashed napalm will be in significant amounts of pain, as it doesn’t sear the flesh enough to destroy the nerves.

“Napalm is the most terrible pain you can imagine,” said Kim Phuc, a napalm bombing survivor known from a famous Vietnam War photograph. “Water boils at 100 degrees Celsius. Napalm generates temperatures of 800 to 1,200 degrees Celsius.”

Phuc sustained third-degree burns to half her body and was not expected to live after the attack, but after surviving a 14-month hospital stay and 17 operations, she survived and became an outspoken peace activist.

#186

I take note of the point, I just seen so much footage of the Bahia Agradable ( Bluff Cove) consecuences of the attack led by 1st Lt Cachón then that it makes me weep for the terrible suffering… the pics simply make me sick, but off course it does not give me the authority to request them removed from the forum…

I seem to be a sort of strange character, so much interested on war as an “amateur historian” and unable to see those images without thinking that any living entity able to inflict that type of injure on another, and of the same kind… let´s leave it at that…

I still do not understand how Britain and Argentina went to war… so terrible things happenned there… altough they are maybe “games” in comparisson with what happens in Irak for example…

Sometimes I think that humanity does not deserve to populate this planet…

Anyway, I am wasted, did 12 hs of work non stop and just arrived home… better to pay attention to my “Commander in Chieff” ( feminine Comander I mean) or most probably I will feel something similar to Napalm over my skin… as “hell hath no fury, such as a Granadian woman´s ignored”…

Cheers from Sunny Spain.

Juan.

#187

Juan, if the pictures offend you then you can always take it to the admin blokes on the site.

As I say though, they aren’t that gratuitous or graphic, and have been displayed before.

#188

NO forget about it… could you all pretend I said nothing on the pics… I do not know anymore how to express that I pitty that people, just that…

PLease continue with the topic as if I did say nothing…

Cheers,

IPS: I should have taken the red pill and stayed in the matrix…

Juan.

#189

Army Commando batallions 601/602.
Tte 1ero Vizoso, My Castagneto, Cap. Fernandez Funes y Cabo 1ero Coronel.
In knee: Tte Elmiger, SgtoAy Vallejos y Sgto Sánchez.

105 mm Oto melara of the 4th airborne artillery Regiment in full recoil after shoting.

First leutenat Carlos Chanampa one of the best soldiers of the 4th, in some ocation Chanampa engaged enemy soldier aiming trough the barrel of his gun given the close range of the british advance.

Aerospatiale Puma of the 601 aviation regiment lifting a 105 mm piece.

#190

By the way I made a indentification mistake earlier.

Gomez-centurion is the guy with the mustache in this picture and have nothing to do with the Gazelles destroyed, Edgardo Esteban , the guy at the right did.

Both soldiers belong to the RIc 25 a mechanized infantry regiment.

#191

Gomez-centurion is the guy with the mustache in this picture and have nothing to do with the Gazelles destroyed, Edgardo Esteban , the guy at the right did.

Yes, Gomez Centurion is the moustached officer, he is a personal friend of a friend of mine that I have not seen in more than 15 years…

He did not gain “fame” for the attack on the Gazelles when the San Carlos landing… That was Leutenant Esteban, but for being the officer that went to “talk” with Col (PM) Jones 3 Para with the funest consecuences when they realized the British troops were taking advantage of the “momentary truce” to gain advantage during the batttle for Goose Green/ Prado del Ganso.

Mayor Chriss Keeble took command then and the rest is well documented.

Regards,

Juan.

#192

Not sure if the language barrier is getting in the way but I don’t understand what you mean here?

#193

Hi Lone Ranger,

I´ve heard the story from some conspicuos lips adorned with some moustaches some 15 years ago…and considering that I had a German granddad by the name of “Dr. Alzheimer” I am not perhaps recalling the event quite clearly.

Anyway, here I go…

When the battle for Goose Green / Prado del Ganso was at its height, there was a flag for “parliament” or “momentary truce” as the British forces wanted to talk to the officer in command on that particular piece of land…

Lt Col Jones, advanced to talk and met “half way trough” with Leutenant Gómez Centurión" and demanded the surrender of the Argentine forces in a sort of “arrogant” manner… the Argentine position was holding very well at that moment and the demand of Lt Col Jones was flatly rejected by Leut Gómez Centurión… and also insisted that he go back to his position to continue the fight… I think he gave him 3 0r 4 minutes to do it…

At the same time, the Argentine forces observed that British troops were taking advantage of the “momentary truce” to advance their troops… when they should have kept their positions…

As a result, there was a storm of fire from the Argentine troops and the legend says that Gómez Centurión himself killed Lt Col Jones with his side arm… or he might have been fired at with machine gunfire…

Thus was this the heroic death of Lt Col Jones… obviously he did not know who he was threatening…

Mayor Chris Keeble took comand of the battle with the result as we all know now… his demand for surrender later on was somewhat arrogant too in a sort of “outdated English”, but the tactical situation by then was somewhat different.

BTW, IN a VHS from the BBC, Falklands, Task Force South" there is some footage of an interview with Mayor Keeble ( then a Mayor) a couple of years after the conflict and he did not mention the death of Col (PM) Jones but speaks about “solid, gathered fighting, bloody battle…” “No picnic” as they said afterwards…

So Lone Ranger, this is what I can contribute on mi side on this regard, I hope I made myself clear this time.

Anyway, after my chat with my working colleague who was in 3 Para for 13 years maybe I can get a different version… or perhaps confirm how it was…

Another detail just for the record… Leutenant Gómez Centurión is the son of a former governor of an Argentine province, If I am not mistaken, it was the province of San Luis.

Cheers and enjoy your weekend !!! I have to work this “f…ing weekend”

Respectfully,

Juan.

#194

Mmm, I’m not sure I buy this story. Col. Jones never met with his opposite opponent and the ceasefire took place after his death; it was arranged by Maj. Chris Keeble after he received news of Jones’ death. Before his stupid suicidal charge at the Argentine positions Col Jones had been in the rear.

Sorry but it just doesn’t make sense.

#195

Lone Ranger,

Please read my post again…you will find that we are saying more and less the same… the only difference was the moment of the death of Lt Col Jones… you say it was during a “stupid suicidal charge”… I say It might have happenned differently… do you know many “stupid suicidal characters” in comand of 3 Para?

I do not really think I am very much off the target… the “parliament” took place… the advantage that the British troops “took” while it was going on was eventually the cause of the death of the Lt Col … and off course, My Keeble, 2nd in command took over OBVIOUSLY after the Lt Col Jones death… death that happened in the front, not rear edge of the battle area.

Remember the battle was a long one…

Anyway, this is as much as I have to say on the matter, surely somebody may contribute with some different facts or views, this is what I ( me) know… and I am ready to change my mind when confronted with evidence… remember I told you I heard the story from some lips that knew very well what happened then and in an environment that do not allowed much “inventing” as we knew what we were talking about and the red wine was running…:slight_smile: I also had the posibility to read lips, observe body language, etc… remember it was over a dozen years ago and my German grandad´s heritage…

You do not have to “buy” this story, I freely give it away…:wink:

Regards,

Pánzon.

#196

Leutenant Gómez Centurión is the son of a former governor of an Argentine province, If I am not mistaken, it was the province of San Luis.

The province of Corrientes actually.

Your history is also quoted in Seineldin book Malvinas, un sentimiento.

#197

Thanks PK, I will see if this book is somewhere in the “hibrid horselikes” barn and download it, it must be interesting specially coming from Seineldin a character that truly never understood really… where all his miliary reputation came from as in Malvinas he was allways at the airport, I know it was heavy shelled over the days but…

At the end of the line they were speaking of him as a hero… perhaps it was the close command he kept on his troops, how he sustained his morale… I don´t know… I left Argentina in 1995 so the only chance to catch on that book would be via download.

Cheers,

Pánzon.

#198

Thanks PK, I will see if this book is somewhere in the “hibrid horselikes” barn and download it, it must be interesting specially coming from Seineldin a character that truly never understood really… where all his miliary reputation came from as in Malvinas he was allways at the airport, I know it was heavy shelled over the days but…
Well I suppose that is like many other characters in Argentine history, a good face but also a bad one.Is not my favorite person aniway.

#199

It was 2 Para actually.

In public members of the Parachute Regiment will kick your teeth in if you in any way criticise Jones. In private they’ll admit he was a dick head for getting himself killed in a pointless charge that didn’t achieve anything.

At the time of his death, the assault had stalled for a variety of reason; all of them as the result of Jones’ actions. His commander in the field wanted to outflank the position (Jones ignored his advice), he wanted to use anti-tank weapons (but Jones had forbidden their use because he wanted to save them for the assault on Stanley), he then ordered a frontal assault on a position with interlocking fields of fire and got his best friend killed.

Jones had also exceeded his orders, he turned what was supposed to be a raid on Goose Green into a full frontal assault.

Commanding officers don’t lead frontal assaults on machine gun nests. Their position is in the rear managing the battle and getting himself killed at a critical point in the battle could have been disastrous. It was thanks to the actions of Maj Chris Keeble, who at least displayed some brains, that turned the battle around. Reversing many of Jones’ decisions they outflanked the position stalling the battle and through some exceedingly brave actions finally took out the position that had caused them so much grief.

If you want to read a brutally honest account of the battle by one of the Paras it was serialised in the Daily Mail.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=454279&in_page_id=1770
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=454305&in_page_id=1770
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=454561&in_page_id=1770
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=454968&in_page_id=1811

There is more detail on the controversy surrounding his award here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._Jones

That aside, I’m sorry but the account your friend related is full of holes. Col. Jones never met his Argentine counterpart, there was never a truce till long after his death.

#200

Yes Lone Ranger,

It was 2 Para… I mentioned my somethimes mixed up memory due to my german ancestor, “Dr. Alzheimer”:)… I knew it was 2 Para and still insisted in writting 3…

I will read the account of the battle. And I said before I am ready to change my views if confronted with evidence. I just brought to this forum, something I heard long time ago in a friends meeting and it seems it brings and interesting exchange of info.

A pitty, one of the “victims” of my emigration from Agentina was the loss of the official book of the Argentine Army in Malvinas /Falklands… what a pitty, Goose Green/ prado del ganso was very well explained there…with plans and everithing…

Anyway, thanks for your answer.:wink:

“The truth is out there” we just have to find it…

Pánzon.